Author Topic: Which William Payne?  (Read 411 times)

Offline Aceh

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Which William Payne?
« on: Sunday 06 November 16 17:24 GMT (UK) »
My 3x great grandfather Joseph Johnson married an Ann Pane at St Dunstan, Stepney on 23 November 1800. Their recorded abode was MENT ie Mile End New Town. Having this information I then looked for Ann's baptism and found Prudence Ann Payne, daughter of William Payne and his wife Ann at St Mary Whitechapel on 20 April 1783; their abode again being recorded as MENT. So far, so good. Both of these events took place in Anglican churches.
However, recent additional and possibly related burial data from another researcher leads to the possibility that both Joseph Johnson and his wife were from non-conformist backgrounds, so to be sure I was on the right track, I tried to establish whether the Payne family that I was concerned with were non-conformist.
Also living in Stepney in the mid 18th century was a Captain William Payne who baptised all of his children at St Dunstan. He appears prominently in Dereck Morris's book on "Mile End Old Town 1740 - 1780". From Dereck's notes lodged at the Tower Hamlets Local History, I found that Captain William Payne had baptised a son William on 7 September 1762. There seemingly being no other Payne family in the Stepney / Whitechapel area, and 1762 would fit the baptism of William, the father of Prudence Ann very nicely, except Dereck records that this William was burned to death along with his younger brother in a house fire at the age of 4.
So, not quite so straightforward after all. Ok, all is not lost as Captain William Payne, in memory of this dead son, baptises another son William on 9 December 1769. But hang on a minute, this William is 7 years younger that the one who died; doing the numbers, this William would have had to have been only 13 - 14 years old when he sired Prudence Ann - seems somewhat unlikely. Elsewhere on the internet it is suggested that this William was washed off the deck of a ship heading for China during a storm, which, had he been the correct father of the bride, would explain why he was not a witness at the marriage of my 3 x great grandparents.

So, I have no backward link and nothing to confirm non-conformist Paynes

Hunting through Family Search, FindMyPast etc I can find other Paynes, in the West End, in Hackey and a family of non-conformists in Holborn, but none of them seem to fit Ann Pane or Prudence Ann Payne of Mile End New Town.

Is anyone else out there researching Payne / Pane or similar?

Thanks in anticipation.     
CUL(L)MER: N, E + SE London 19 cent, E Kent pre 1830, New York post 1850, Vic Australia post 1850
JOHNSON: (dockers/ropemakers) Tower Hamlets pre WWII
OSBORN:(dyers, scourers & gloove cleaners) Hoxton, Islington, Clerkenwell pre 1900
KEWLEY: Bradford 1830-1913, IoM pre 1850
CANNELL: IoM pre 1820
FABB: Cambridge
COLE(S): Warks/Oxon border pre 1830
RILEY: (RC) Bishopsgate area pre 1800
HALE: Brighton pre 1850
KIPPS: E Kent pre 1750
HARDING: MEOT post 1850, Bath Area pre 1850
PARTINGTON Lancs

Online amondg

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Re: Which William Payne?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 06 November 16 20:19 GMT (UK) »
Does the witness at the marriage ? Haleworth/Halesworth, help at all.
Relative maybe?
The other witness Daniel Price must be the parish clerk as he is a witness to 6 of the 8 marriages on the page.

Added there is a Joseph Johnson who marries Ann Dullery Attwell 27 December 1802 at St Dunstan Stepney. Cannot see the image on this one,was he a widower? 

Offline Aceh

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Re: Which William Payne?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 06 November 16 23:35 GMT (UK) »
Amondg,

Thanks for your swift reply.

Halesworth appears as witness to more than one marriage along with Daniel Price whom I know well. To my present knowledge, there were no family connections to anyone with the name Halesworth.

As for Ann Dullery Attwell (widow) who married a Joseph Johnson in December 1802, this was the day immediately before the birth of a son William Johnson to my 3 x great grandfather Joseph and his wife Ann. I have hunted high and low for details of the deceased husband (Mr Dullery / Mr Attwell / Mr Dullery Attwell) without any success, in the minutely finite possibillity that his extremely heavily pregnant widow could somehow be got to the church in time to prevent a possible illigitamacy.

The lack of named family witnesses for both marriages does not help, but the balance of probability supports the earlier marriage being correct.
CUL(L)MER: N, E + SE London 19 cent, E Kent pre 1830, New York post 1850, Vic Australia post 1850
JOHNSON: (dockers/ropemakers) Tower Hamlets pre WWII
OSBORN:(dyers, scourers & gloove cleaners) Hoxton, Islington, Clerkenwell pre 1900
KEWLEY: Bradford 1830-1913, IoM pre 1850
CANNELL: IoM pre 1820
FABB: Cambridge
COLE(S): Warks/Oxon border pre 1830
RILEY: (RC) Bishopsgate area pre 1800
HALE: Brighton pre 1850
KIPPS: E Kent pre 1750
HARDING: MEOT post 1850, Bath Area pre 1850
PARTINGTON Lancs