Ancestry DNA test - disappointing result

[diplodicus]

"Disappointment" implies a result that did not meet the expectations of the customer even if these expectations were unrealistic. I feel that Ancestry Inc. can be held to blame for inflating expectations of potential customers for their DNA testing.

It's all very well for us nerds to understand what constitutes a reasonable expectation but that isn't how it's promoted. The adverts suggest that the results of  DNA test will indundate the customer with loads of relations. In a nerdy way it's true (a gene match is likely to be a far distant relation) but not in any way that is meaningful to the occasional genealogist or the simply curious individual who has never before considered his or her ancestry.

I think we will continue to hear of such disappointments for as long as Ancestry promotes their DNA testing in the way that they do.

[Orontes]

My parents have both recently done Ancestry DNA tests and I am the one who updates and researches my maternal line on Ancestry. We got two hints (one of which was rubbish, the other is a private tree) and 60 odd cousin matches.

The biggest problem I've had, after people simply not responding, is that a lot of the trees don't go far enough to show me the mutual ancestor. HOWEVER I have, with some investigation of the trees, found a few mutual ancestors quite far back, which has been a wonderful feeling because it feels like vindication that the research has been correctly done and the paperwork might be accurate. Even better, I believe I might be not far off proving the father of my illegitimate great great grandmother as I've got an ancestral match on her paternal father's line.

When the topic of DNA tests first came up I was sceptical of it- for one thing, I thought if someone said "your ancestors came from the middle east six million years ago" you wouldn't be able to prove you weren't being ripped off, but secondly if the results came back with "you have Scottish ancestry" I didn't like the idea that someone might grab the first possible Scottish ancestor they came across using that DNA as proof instead of other evidence. Since doing the test, I've found that with investigation things can be discovered and it has its uses.

I share my 7th great grandparents, Robert TREWARTHA and Ann RALPH with one result. I share my 6th great grandparents Peter BULMER and Elizabeth PIG with another result. My potential 8th great grandparents Nicholas UGLOW and Elizabeth SHORT with another result. My 5th great grandparents Alexander NELSON and Jane HUTCHINSON with another result...
... but those matches came because of poking around with the trees of my matches and looking for the links. Ancestry didn't supply them for me. It's unfortunate, but genealogy always has been a game of finding things out for ourselves.

I'm very much looking forward to narrowing down the guilty party who got my 3rd great grandmother pregnant and hope that with DNA we can at least get it down to one of four brothers.

Hi Ayashi, I am not sure if this is the right placeto reply to your  message, re Ancestry DNA test, disappointing result, but I did a ydna test for my brother in 2009.  I havent had a good result as yet.  It was familytreedna.  Our nephew had onedone for him as well.  the nephew matched a hundred per ent, but we didnt match anyone in the PLACE family.  My Gt GF had two brothers.  Two decendants one from ech brother had a ydna test done.  That is the maleChromosone just the male line.  We didnt match either,so there is an oopseither from one of my Gt GM or maybe a sister of my 2nd great grandfather.    Could be my GT GF wasthe oops.  I cantget anyone else in another line but from my GT GF lot to do a test to see if they too match ours but not the Place line.  The Place line only match as far as 1600, so who kows if they would match further back.  With the Ancestry test, I understood it was more a haplogroup match, nomadic, where you come from rather than a genetic match.A male has his mothers and fathers dna, whereas a woman only the female line.  Ancestry has an ad, where females comeon and say they had their DNA done and found their grandfather, as far as I know that couldnt be, could it as his female line would be his mothers dna, whereas the daughters would be her mothers.  Something like that.  So most of the matches  at least the distanct ones would be more nomadic or somewhere on a very large tree over hundreds of years.  I have found that most folk who did have a similar match, were not interested unless it was found they were definitely on your line.  I think that is a shame as if yu do have a match, even distantly, same name, you are still family.  We couldnt find the same name match and not even a different name match to other Place families.  Not impresed as the very first test back the 12 marker, was inconclusive.  that put me off big time.  I did do a familyfinder, but they ask you for family names.  I think they go looking for people with the same name.  then give you a match. I had a lady get in touch in America who had a Place relative,but my brother who is my natural brother did not have a Place relative in the US, from the ydna test.  So where did mine come from. I am female the nephew looks like my dad and is 100 per cent same as my brothers dna, enough to put you off isn't it? A lot of folk have success, but you need others with the same name to take the test, if none does then you wont get a match.  More folk are taking the ydna test.  Dont think ancestry have that test do they?

[Orontes]

I was attracted to the headline of this thread because I have just had my own very eagerly awaited DNA results back and am feeling an awful sense of anti-climax.       If it wasn't for the fact that I personally know my top two matches, I'd be tempted to think they'd got the kit boxes mixed up!

I know it's early days yet, but I haven't been able to find a single surname that matches to my father's side of the family amongst the long lists of 'cousins'.    But what concerns me more is that I haven't been matched with someone whom I know is a fourth cousin of mine, and neither am I matched to any of the other people in that line that she has been matched with.     Fortunately for me, I have a cousin in law who is much better versed and experienced in this field than I am (it wouldn't be hard!) and she is holding my virtual hand and helping me through it, but unless I find a match soon, I'm going to be worrying about a suspected extra marital event!

I take the point made earlier, that it is more helpful if you come from a more mixed ancestry.  Mine has come back 96 per cent British Isles with a smidgeon of Western Europe, which doesn't apparently help.

hello Winterbloom,
Your DNA attempts read like my brothers did for a familytreedna test.  His doesnt match the two descendants of two of our GT GF brothers.  They match other PLACE family members back to 1600, but cant find a common relationship on our family tree back to any of those back to 1600.  There are one or two family facial traits for the children of the second marriage of my GT GF, ie gap between the front teeth, I had that before I closed it up and a son did, that makes me think there is an oops about the time of the birth of my GT GF.  I had a ydna test done for my brother a 67 marker but the first 12 marker came bak inconclusive, then a fortnight lager we recei ed the results it was a r1b1b2 whereas the others in our family who tested was a R1a1 group.  Disappointed and still a sceptic.

[Orontes]

Hi, I am a biologist and unfortunately the problem lies in the way these companies do the tests and the levels at which they investigate. For example, none of us are really English, or British: we all came West, so a proper analysis would find which part of Europe we originated from etc. I think it is all a bit hit and miss and the DNA can't really tell everything at this level.  It's a shame when we get different results from different companies and agree, it's the algorithms etc that they use.

Hi Gaynorf, asa Biologist, do you have a preference of the various companies.  Who would you suggest.  I wouldnt mind retesting my  rothhers ydna with another company.  I had him tested with Familytreedna, disappointing result as I know we share the same father and I am prettys ure my tree is correct back to at least my GT GF at that point two brothers descnedants of my GT GF have tested have correctly match woth others of the same name.  We at the moment donot match anyone with the same name.
Thanks for your opinion. if that is allowed of course.

[DavidG02]

"Disappointment" implies a result that did not meet the expectations of the customer even if these expectations were unrealistic. I feel that Ancestry Inc. can be held to blame for inflating expectations of potential customers for their DNA testing.

It's all very well for us nerds to understand what constitutes a reasonable expectation but that isn't how it's promoted. The adverts suggest that the results of  DNA test will indundate the customer with loads of relations. In a nerdy way it's true (a gene match is likely to be a far distant relation) but not in any way that is meaningful to the occasional genealogist or the simply curious individual who has never before considered his or her ancestry.

I think we will continue to hear of such disappointments for as long as Ancestry promotes their DNA testing in the way that they do.

I have really liked the calm measured way you have approached this subject. I agree its the sales pitch that has soured it for a lot

Why am I testing?

1. Curiosity
2. To check a family myth ( 1  busted 1 still to be confirmed/busted)
3. To break down brickwalls ( 1 at least )
4. To check if my paperwork is correct
5. YDNA to confirm paternal background

I have no expectation that DNA testing will solve world hunger or find the exact pinpoint match to unlock why my GGgrandfather is hard to pin down. I dont hold steadfast views that my father is my father or his father is his. I am open to all of that.

I use my 2nd cousins to confirm paperwork and connections. I dont expect 2nd cousins to match at Ggrandparent level. I am wise enough to recognise the match can be further back. ie if I see a 2nd-4th cousin match I dont get upset if I cant find the match.

Just as I only use 5th cousins to name check. If there is no recognisable names then so be it. I am indeed spoiled for choice. 1600 matches and counting after 1 year. Many more to come from October when the YDNA test results are in.

Am I disappointed to have 1600 matches out of '' 50 million tests sold'' . No. I am excited to find the matches to them

On to the non-response. Its annoying but its to be expected. But its made up by the responses I do get. Sunshine and lollipops.

I have said this elsewhere but I am playing the long game. This is for the next 20 years. Testing will be more precise, it will get better and more matches will appear. Its not the matches today that excite me its the matches that turn up tomorrow.

Good luck everyone and dont look for the secret of life at Ancestry or FTDNA

[diplodicus]

I am sure a lot of you will know of the really useful ISOGG site...

 https://isogg.org/

... already but it led me to this blog entry that, I feel, deals nicely with the whole topic of "Ethnicity Estimates"...

http://britishgenes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/confusion-and-joy-from-ancestrydna-test.html

[tuppenyone]

I too was initially disappointed with what the Ancestry DNA test. I'm not sure what I expected, what information I thought I'd get. So I just let the results sit there for months and did nothing.  Then just recently, I decided to put a bit of work into it, so I started contacting people that turned up as matches.  I particularly wanted to find out more about my Irish g-grandfather, but due to his name I didn't have high hopes... John Murphy.

In the last week, thanks to linking with a DNA match, I have gone back two more generations on this family, found out where John's brother died, found immigration records and best of all, made a new international friend who is as excited as I am at discovering our link.

There are disappointments - people who seem to be good matches who have no tree or don't respond to your messages.

I have just this last week tested my Mum to focus my results a bit more.

[RobertCasey]

Part 1 of 2

Just like regular genealogical research, the expectations of many genetic genealogists is just too high. The atDNA testing companies (Ancestry.com, 23andme and FTDNA Family Finder) is really good for those just starting out and want to use technology to find relatives - which is it does well in many scenarios. If you have very recent adoption (or suspect one) - then atDNA testing can be extremely useful.

However, these companies that are selling these products are profit making companies just like those companies that sell cars. To expect sales claims to align with reality is just not realistic. On the other hand, these companies are drawing many new generational testers due to technology aspect - who eventually move onto more complex DNA testing and become new skilled genealogical researchers as well.

Since genetic testing is a market driven economy, do not expect that all geographies are covered equally. By far the best coverage are Irish and Scottish testers. Why ? They fit into the science much better: 1) clan names tend to have the primary clan septs with very large living offspring today (unlike the English Brooks surname that proves that living by a brook (stream) just does not mean much for relatedness). Also, those people that English speaking ancient ancestors started using surnames in earnest around 1,000 years which helps a lot. Americans drive most of the testing since we are lack the rich ancestry due to only being a country for just over two centuries. Americans researching DNA also enjoy huge increases in population due the western expansion of migration with plentiful land (and the sad fact that the native population has plummeted to only a few percent of Americans).

Irish ancestors are specially blessed by for genetic testing since Americans have literally ten times the Irish blood flowing in our veins than the entire Republic of Ireland. Canadians and Australian/NZ each have as much Irish blood flowing through their veins as the Republic of Ireland. If you have an English line that may not have immigrated to America, you will struggle much more in finding cousins. The bottom line, anyone who expects that the Czech line is covered just as well as Irish lines just needs to get connected to the reality of the market place and adjust their expectations. Having Czech ancestors in traditional genealogical research is much easier since their surnames are much easier to find (until the names morph into something more English over time).

[RobertCasey]

Part 2 of 2

Also, there are those that are trying very hard to convince others that atDNA testing address brick walls. They have a bias of atDNA testing since they started out with atDNA testing. Also, YDNA testing only covers one all male line, so its investment to make progress is much higher but the yields will be much better in the long run. Once you reach back into the 1700s, atDNA matches just fall off the map - yes I know that there can be exceptions but there are definitely technical limitations in atDNA testing. Also, those testing mtDNA - I just do not understand why there is such interest by genealogists who are falling into the hype of being a all female line test. mtDNA has only 16,000 base pairs in its structure and YDNA has 58,000,000 base pairs (only around 20,000,000 can be read currently or is useful for genealogical research). In the battle of sample size, mtDNA just is not relevant unless you want to contribute to the migration of women kind thousands of years ago. There are a handful of exceptions - but this biology just has extreme limitations associated with it.

YDNA remains mainly an investment in the future for most testers. However, a growing number of YDNA testers are making some serious progress. With Big Y testing, we are now regularly getting a new mutation every five generations or so. If you use mutations in complex areas of the YCHR, you can get that down to every four generations and FGC's YElite tests with 30 % more coverage, gets you down to one mutation every three generations. The Chromium enhanced YElite test covers right at twice of much as Big Y (currently too high of cost at $2,950), but YSNP mutations could get down to every two generations.

Throw in YSTR mutations at 67 markers into this mix and you can actually start finding a few combination of YSTRs and YSNPs assigned to a very unique few testers that are now being assigned to actual ancestors on pedigree charts (less than one percent now). For instance, the YSNP mutation Y5610 means that you are direct descendant of King Brian Boru (lived just over 1,000 years ago). We also have five YSNP branches below Y5610 and around ten branches based on a combination of YSNPs and YSTR mutations. That is really starting to make some serious genealogical progress on this very common Irish surname = O'Brien. On the downside, the vast majority of even the R-L226 O'Brien testers are not descendants of King Brian Boru.

Once we figure out how to use the 500 YSTRs being reported with every Big Y test, we will have several mutations assigned to each male ancestor on our pedigree chart in the next ten years. Unfortunately, this will require ten to one hundred times the current testers to sort out, IT costs and software tools will far exceed the costs of the actual DNA testing and much of the analysis will no longer be possible via manual analysis (requiring very complex software to sort out). But the long term promise of YDNA testing is nothing less revolutionary. However, this kind of progress will not be found by all. Those that have prolific numbers of offspring will get there first. Those that are very genetically isolated will get there first. Those with ancestors in western Europe will get there sooner due to the market driven aspect.