Author Topic: Clutching at straws  (Read 754 times)

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Clutching at straws
« on: Tuesday 15 November 16 12:58 GMT (UK) »
A few days ago I was shown how to reach the baptism registers for Auckland, Co.Durham, and was speedily assisted.  That query developed from a 'fuzzy' marriage certificate relating to my wife's gt-gt-grandfather Ralph Burn (b.1816).  The certificate records a marriage between Ralph BURNS and Elizabeth ANDREWS on 5 February 1849 at St.Andrew's, Newcastle/Tyne.  Ralph is known to have married Elizabeth Anderson (daughter of Robert) as suggested by their first child Robert Anderson Burn, born June 1850.  Most info on the certificate is fairly correct (Tanner ~ leather-dresser, and Shoemaker ~ cordwainer) although Ralph was actually a widower, not a bachelor.

I would like to see what is recorded in the original church register, but I haven't managed to get to it yet ....
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Clutching at straws
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 15 November 16 19:24 GMT (UK) »
Are you asking for a parish register lookup?  If so -  your post needs to be on the Northumberland board.   You can ask the moderator to move it for you by clicking on the "report to moderator" button found in the bottom right hand corner of your post

Quote
That query developed from a 'fuzzy' marriage certificate

Copy certs are often "copied & pasted" from the original entry.  In cases were this is felt to be inadvisable, the copy cert will be handwritten from the original entry.

Your description of "fuzzy" could mean it was copied from the original
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Clutching at straws
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 15 November 16 23:12 GMT (UK) »
Are you asking for a parish register lookup?  If so -  your post needs to be on the Northumberland board.   You can ask the moderator to move it for you by clicking on the "report to moderator" button found in the bottom right hand corner of your post

Quote
That query developed from a 'fuzzy' marriage certificate

Copy certs are often "copied & pasted" from the original entry.  In cases were this is felt to be inadvisable, the copy cert will be handwritten from the original entry.

Your description of "fuzzy" could mean it was copied from the original
When I say 'fuzzy' I mean that it is close but not identical to the names I am expecting.  It is an image, not a copy, of the 1849 certificate - but no closer approximation can be found.
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Offline Rosinish

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Re: Clutching at straws
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 15 November 16 23:55 GMT (UK) »
It may be simply having been asked if he was a "Bachelor" he didn't think any different as they may not have given him other options "are you a widower"/"have you been married previously" etc.

I know of people in this day who are divorced who say they're single.

I think it's a loose term rather than having to go into detail if asked?

Annie
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Offline Tickettyboo

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Re: Clutching at straws
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 16 November 16 22:25 GMT (UK) »
It may be simply having been asked if he was a "Bachelor" he didn't think any different as they may not have given him other options "are you a widower"/"have you been married previously" etc.


Annie

or  he may have been asked 'do you have a wife' and answered no
or he may not have been asked at all but the vicar assumed that as he said he was free to marry he was a bachelor.
or the vicar just wrote down bachelor out of habit
or (outside chance) the original says widower and the copy sent to the authorities has a transcription error

So I agree, it would be 'tidy' to check what the original parish record says :-)

Boo

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Clutching at straws
« Reply #5 on: Monday 25 September 17 15:44 BST (UK) »
Almost a year on, I am trying to find whether in 1851 Ralph Burn was still at the address he gave at his marriage in February 1849:  Newgate Street Newcastle (he can't be found anywhere; his wife and young son are with cousins in Bishop Auckland).  That would seem to be fairly easy, but despite trying a selection of about 20 common names and surnames, I can't pick up anyone in Newgate Street in 1851, so I am beginning to suspect that some census records may be missing, unless no-one lived there at all.  But that seems unlikely in a major town street.

Anyone any info or suggestions?
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Offline Millmoor

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Re: Clutching at straws
« Reply #6 on: Monday 25 September 17 16:02 BST (UK) »
You can search by address on FindMyPast and  there are lots of hits for Newgate Street in Newcastle.

There is a 1851 census entry for a Ralph Burns living in Pitt Street,Newcastle but age given as 28. Occupation is,however,tanner journeyman - marital status is left blank.He  is recorded as living with Thomas and Sarah Armstrong.

William

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Offline trish1120

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Re: Clutching at straws
« Reply #7 on: Monday 25 September 17 16:34 BST (UK) »
BURNS, ROBERT  ANDERSON, Mothers mn ANDERSON***
GRO Reference: 1850  J Quarter in AUCKLAND UNION  Volume 24  Page 4

BURN, JOHN, Mothers mn EMBLETON***
GRO Reference: 1840  M Quarter in THE HEXHAM UNION  Volume 25  Page 283

So the 1st Marriage was too Margaret Embleton 10 Mar 1834, Hexham, Northumberland?

FreeREG has 2 Childrens Baptisms in Hexham;
WILLIAM 28 Feb 1838
JOHN 24 Jan 1840
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Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Clutching at straws
« Reply #8 on: Monday 25 September 17 17:33 BST (UK) »
You can search by address on FindMyPast and  there are lots of hits for Newgate Street in Newcastle.
Thanks for that, William.  I'm pretty sure I tried that - but never mind ....

There is a 1851 census entry for a Ralph Burns living in Pitt Street, Newcastle but age given as 28. Occupation is, however, tanner journeyman - marital status is left blank.  He is recorded as living with Thomas and Sarah Armstrong.

Those were the two witnesses on his marriage certificate, and he was a tanner (not always employed) all his life, so I think that must be him.  I'll do some more checking as his age may have made a difference.  The arbitrary terminal-S on the surname doesn't help either ..... or perhaps there were two of them and the other one married a real Anderson ......

LATER - yes, it is him.  Thomas Armstrong married Ralph's sister Sarah (b.1810) at Hexham in July 1836.  She should have known her brother's age  ??? but the 1851 census record giving her birthplace as a corrupted form of Kirkoswald confirms it.  Thanks for your help.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young