Reynolds Southwark

[AlanWatson]

Hi,

Thanks again to everyone for your contributions. I have been and will be rather busy over the past and next 24 hours; sorry if I have missed things and not responded adequately.

In response to Lilly's observation that Thomas Reynolds made a mark, I had been wondering what kind of brokers this family was. One of the insurance records that JJ turned up tells us that James Dale was a broker of household goods, so not a stock, insurance or shipping broker as we might expect today.

I have re-read the 1807 will of this James Dale and realise that I had three names wrong: his wife and one daughter were both Hannah and not Joannah, and the first child was James and not Frances.

This makes more sense. I now have

James Dale m Ann Reynolds 1 Feb 1766, St Saviour Southwark buried 29 Feb 1799 St George Southwark (broker from the Mint)

James Dale broker Red Cross St in various insurance records from 1788-1813 latterly in names of trustees Robert Wear & Richard Blunt & also mentioning Ann Dale, will probate 28 May 1807 broker St George probate wife Hannah & friends Robert Wear & Richard Blunt, legacies children James, Ann, Thomas, Hannah, Diana.

Children (all christened at St George the Martyr Southwark parents James & Hannah Dale)

James b 28 Sept ch 9 Oct 1791 apprenticed to Robert Wear citizen & Grocer 3 Oct 1805
Ann b 25 June chr 14 Jul 1793
Thomas b 21 July ch 9 Aug 1795
Hannah b 2 chr 26 October 1797
Diana b 27 June chr 19 July 1801

So this all seems fairly coherent, even if there are lots of BMD records missing. And of course none of it helps with the origins of Charles Reynolds.


Alan

[J.J.]

It seems that type of broker was a middleman in the transaction between buyers and sellers of almost anything...ships, coal, tea, furniture, tools, cloth, garments etc.  Perhaps anything of a large amount??
More like a salesperson it seems... and there appears to be no aprenticeship training involved so I guess if you had contacts & in this case family in the trade, you were it! J.J.

[J.J.]

Not that it helps a great deal, but have located Ann Dale/Newton nee Reynolds, I'll send the insurance info by p.m. so you can see how I deduced that it was she....

Broker - Ann Newton looks to have been surname Dale. ( Reynolds mentioned in her Mint street holdings )
   Joseph Newton & Ann Dale —  1792 Surrey Marriage   Southwark St George the Martyr, Surrey, England
   
    Looks to be the correct one
PROB 11/1225/144 Will of Joseph Newton, Broker/ Saint George Southwark , Surrey  22 Nov 1792
 
PROB 11/1656/48  Will of Ann Newton, Widow/ Southwark, Surrey   06 April 1822
  Newton, Ann   1738  —  1822   Greater London Burial Index Southwark, St George the Martyr, 

[J.J.]

Also sons John ( broker) & George Reynolds may have died the same year....both on the 1772 Greater London Burial Index for Southwark, St Thomas, Surrey. However, neither appear to have wills so again, no real help.
George can also be found in 1763 - Haberdashers, apprentices and freemen
 

adding
There is a will for a George Reynolds but occupation was Goldsmith / All Hallows Barking , City of London, Proven 28 February 1772.  A leap from Haberdasher, don't even see a goldsmith apprentice ...and a stretch in distance.

[AlanWatson]

Further to JJ's posts, the marriage bond for Ann Dale and Joseph Newton was dated 2 January 1792 and shows him as a widower and her as a widow. The wedding was in St George on the 7th of the same month. Both were shown as 'of this parish'.

I haven't followed up any further but a Joseph Newton married a Hannah Dale in the same church on 23 Feb 1766 - his first wife a relative of Ann's first husband?

Ann Newton's burial was on 27 February 1822 aged 84. I can't make her abode clearly. It looks like William Street on one line and Lamb Street immediately underneath.

The will, dated 1821 with a codicil in 1822, is clearer giving her address as William Street, St Martin, Southwark. The will makes provision for her grandchildren James Dale, Thomas Dale, Ann possibly Straw, Hannah (not sure) and Diana possibly Barnes. These are clearly the names of the children by her son James, who predeceased her, mentioned in my earlier post, but I would really welcome a second look at the surnames. She also makes provision for her brother John Reynolds and his present wife (not named that I can see, but his original wife was Ann). The will is quite long, and I haven't yet been all the way through it.

His will (dated 9th Jan - two days after the wedding) gives him as a broker of St George, Southwark and appoints his wife Ann Newton as his executrix and main beneficiary. It also mentions a Charles Dale.

Joseph Newton from Peckham in Camberwell parish was buried at St George on 30 November 1792. This looks tantalisingly close, but would he have been buried 8 days after his will was proved? Still, I can't find any other record. No age is given on the burial record or the Greater London Burial Index which seems to have been copied from it.

Well done to JJ for finding these records.

When I get a moment, I will look back through Ann's will and see whether I can identify her grandchildren's marriages. We might also look for her brother's death, which we can place after 1822. I would be grateful for help reading her grandchildren's married names.

Alan

[AlanWatson]

Ann Dale married Samuel Stead at Christ Church Southwark on 3 August 1817
Hanna Dale married Richard Norton at St Mary Lambeth on 13 February 1815
Diana Dale married William Barnes at St Giles Camberwell on 20 May 1819


Alan

[J.J.]

How wonderful that Ann got to see her children marry!!!!

Perhaps her own marriage being so close to the death date made cause for further examination of the body....
The street is Lant street as William St is listed within 12 streets, very confusing...
  #2. is in Lant-street, Southwark, near Blackman- street

https://books.google.ca/books?id=tjEQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA413&lpg=PA413&dq="william+st",+"lant-street"


The Steads are there in 1841, sadly Ann already passed away in 1851
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQKF-JV2  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGKC-MWN
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MG-ZCFV
Wm & Diana Barnes  https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQVY-CPF
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGKC-ZNR

Norton - See several children for them, but don't see Richard or Hanna in census...Richard may have died  1832 and she may have remarried but don't see it
EDIT: Made link to births smaller... http://www.rootschat.com/links/01j56/

[AlanWatson]

Well done JJ.

It was Ann's grandchildren that she saw marry. I will have to read Ann's will again, but I think she sets up a trust for her great grandchildren.

Alan

[J.J.]

Yes, Grandchildren ....That's what I meant to write, ack ....was relaxing while poking at all that but time flew & had to run to get the turkey out & stuff(ing)