Author Topic: Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864  (Read 597 times)

Offline westernwombat

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Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864
« on: Tuesday 22 November 16 14:50 GMT (UK) »
Thomas is a hard name to research in Wales and nearby localities.

On a very brief visit to Ellesmere Cemetery from Australia earlier this year, I saw the recently-erected gravesite of my great great uncle, David Arthur Thomas, and thought the renewal of that site may indicate some interest in family history by his descendants.

The information I have is not well validated, but at present it is what I am working on:

David Arthur Thomas, chr. 18 Feb 1864, Ellesmere, Shropshire; died 27 Sep 1952 in Ellesmere, Shropshire; his wife Annie, b. abt. 1861, Ellesmere, Shropshire; d. 6 Mar 1930 in Ellesmere, Shropshire; daughters Marion Louisa abt. 1896-1976; Bertha Annie abt. 1897-1976.

His brother Walter Thomas (b. 5 Dec 1861) is my great great grandfather. Their parents were - not certain of this - Edward Thomas (abt. 1836-1926, born The Gadlas, near Ellesmere) and Elizabeth (abt. 1833-1892).

Walter married Margaret Jane Jones,  who was born abt. 1859 in Selatyn, Shrophire, chr.  27 Nov 1859 in Stoke Saint Milborough, Shropshire, and d. 24 Jan 1910 in Ellesmere. Their wedding date was 17 Dec 1883 in Criftins, Shropshire.

Their children included my grandfather, Clement Thomas b. 26 Jan 1892, The Gadlas, Ellesmere, Shropshire, who migrated to Western Australia after 1900 and married Jeanie McCully at Subiaco, Western Australia on 19 Jun 1915. Jean was born in Partick, Lanarkshire, Scotland on 6 Dec 1890 and died 19 Sep 1966 at Alfred Cove, Western Australia.  Clement Thomas died in Mandurah, Western Australia on 17 Dec 1961.

Other children of Walter and Margaret were Ethel, Florence Elizabeth, Margaret Blanche, and Olive M. Thomas.

I would like to know more about the individuals from my grandfather's siblings back to Edward Thomas, but my researches to date have come across some individuals with the same names and birth years, born in Ellesmere, so has not been very fruitful. Also, groups like FreeREG/FreeBMD (UK) and BillionGraves haven't commenced looking at Ellesmere records.

So, local knowledge would be helpful.

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Offline lizdb

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Re: Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 22 November 16 15:17 GMT (UK) »
Here is the family of David A (bn 1864ish) with parents Edward and Elizabeth

He does have a sibling Walter , but he seems older than an 1861 birth

Also has lots of other siblngs!

1871
1 Church Street Elsmere
Edward 35 circular sawyer bn Denbighshire
Elizabeth 39
Edwin A 13
Walter 12
Rosa 10
Louisa 9
ALice 8
David A 6
HArry 5
Alfred 3
Marion 1
Willer 3 mths     all bar Dad bn Ellesmere


When "your" David marries, who does he name as father? Is it Edward, a sawyer?  Likewise when "your" Walter marries?
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline KGarrad

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Re: Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 22 November 16 15:18 GMT (UK) »
FreeBMD does cover deaths in Ellesmere! ;D
But you need to understand the Registration District(s) concerned?

Ellesmere Rural and Ellesmere Urban parishes, from 1935 to 2005, came under the Oswestry Registration District.
see: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/oswestry.html

Ellesmere Registration District itself was abolished in 1935
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/ellesmere.html


From FreeBMD:
Deaths, September qtr 1952
Oswestry Registration District     vol 9a, page 113
Thomas, David A     age 88

Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline lizdb

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Re: Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 22 November 16 15:23 GMT (UK) »
Where did you get Walters birth as Dec 1861 from?

If that is correct, then the family I found cant be the right one, as here they are earlier in 1861 with Walter already age 2

1861
Ellesmere
Edward 25 sawyer bn Montgomeryshire
Elizabeth 28 bn Ellesmere
Walter 2 bn Ellesmere
Rosa 10 mths bn Ellesmere

Alterntively, if the Dec 1861 birthdate is correct, then his parents may not be Edward and Elizabeth, or at least not these ones who also have David Arthur.
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline westernwombat

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Re: Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 22 November 16 16:02 GMT (UK) »
@KGarrad, thank you for the heads-up on how to find Ellesmere records in FreeBMD

@lizdb, I have some very ropey information that needs checking. The birthdates and names given to me by a cousin, obtained about 10 years ago, can possibly match those you have shown from 1871 census. I will give them below -

Edwin Ainsworth - 1857/1858
Walter - 1858, 1860, and 5 Dec 1861 (!)
Rose - 1860
Louisa - 1862
Alice - 1863
David A. - 1865
Harry - 1866
Alfred - 1868
Marian - 1870
Wilton - 1871
Albert - 1873
Arthur - 1864

These are supposedly all children of Edward Thomas, all born in Ellesmere.

Edward - born about 1836 in Montgomeryshire, ? Wales - a circular sawyer / picture framer, who married Elizabeth, born in Ellesmere about 1833.
I found an Edward Thomas born in Llansaintffraid, Montgomeryshire who I think is the same; died 28 Nov 1926 in Ellesmere.

For Walter (son of Edward & Elizabeth), my cousin gave me a document with birth dates of 1858, 1860, and 1861.  The more exact information: that he was born 1858 last quarter, record from Sup. registrar's District of Ellesmere, Vol 6a, Page 651. I have seen the index, have not ordered the image. Walter's occupation: carpenter.
Their marriage was (according to my cousin's doc), last quarter 1883, Ellesmere, Volume 6a, page 1421, District Ellesmere.

Offline lizdb

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Re: Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 22 November 16 16:12 GMT (UK) »

For Walter (son of Edward & Elizabeth), my cousin gave me a document with birth dates of 1858, 1860, and 1861.  The more exact information: that he was born 1858 last quarter, record from Sup. registrar's District of Ellesmere, Vol 6a, Page 651. I have seen the index, have not ordered the image.

OK - 1858 makes sense.  So we have got the right family!

Now we have found the right family on a census as a starting point, remind me what we are looking for?
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

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Re: Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 22 November 16 16:19 GMT (UK) »
If you are trying to go back further, then this may give you a clue.

Eldest son, Edwin A, was not at home in 1861, though can be seen in 1871 with parents so had not died.

This is possibly him with Grandparents on census night

1861
Watergate Street, Ellesmere
Thomas Lloyd 68 painter and glazier bn Ellesmere
Sarah 69 wife bn Blackburn Lancs
Emma Lloyd 40 dtr unm  bn Ellesmere
Edwin Thomas 3 grandson bn Ellesmere
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

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Re: Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 22 November 16 16:22 GMT (UK) »
Looking good

MArriage
April/May/Jun 1857
Ellesmere
ref 6a 1264
Edward Thomas / Elizabeth Lloyd

That cert will hopefully give fathers names (Elizabeth's seems to be Thomas the painter and glazier on the face of it)
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline lizdb

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Re: Ellesmere - David Arthur Thomas born 1864
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 22 November 16 16:25 GMT (UK) »
1851

Watergate Street
Thomas Lloyd 58 painter & Glazier bn Ellesmere
Sarah 59 bn Blackburn LAncs
Emma 30 dtr unm
Elizabeth 19 dtr unm 

all tying up nicely for the Lloyds
Edmonds/Edmunds - mainly Sussex
DeBoo - London
Green - Suffolk
Parker - Sussex
Kemp - Essex
Farrington - Essex
Boniface - West Sussex

census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk