Allan surname in Stirling/Perth/Kincardine/Neilston/Refrew

[Forfarian]

I'm always confused as to exactly what "town" they are are born in, which is why I listed everything.

Very wise!

If it's any help, I have a similar problem with places in England, let alone in other parts of the world.

It's not helped by the fact that the meanings of the words 'town' and 'city' have shifted over time. In this day and age a town is a place larger than a village, but not large or important enough to be a city.

In earlier times, the word 'town' in Scotland often (usually, even) refers to a single farm consisting of a farm house, barns, byres, stables, bothy and cotterhouses.

In the US (as I understand it) the term 'city' can refer to a place that in Scotland would be referred to as a village. And I have been to many a 'village' in various parts of Europe that is several times larger than some places described as 'town' in Scotland.

See also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=758930.0

[Rosinish]

I did wonder if it could be Menteith. I can see poor writing making that seem like Montalk!  Port of Menteith is the neighbouring parish to Kincardine.  I agree that seeing the original is the only way of sorting that one out.

J11,

I would definitely agree on that (one I'd forgotten) but worth getting the original as it will help not only to confirm but to move up the ladder possibly?

Annie

[rosie17]

I did wonder if it could be Menteith. I can see poor writing making that seem like Montalk!  Port of Menteith is the neighbouring parish to Kincardine.  I agree that seeing the original is the only way of sorting that one out.

J11,

I would definitely agree on that (one I'd forgotten) but worth getting the original as it will help not only to confirm but to move up the ladder possibly?

Annie

Yes would think it was Monteith 
Rosie

[Forfarian]

Hi Rose if I may ask for an explanation what does it mean where it says 1851 census "Allisons Land Newton Mearns Refrewshire" and on the 1861 census address Grahams Land Toll Bar Neilston Renfrewshire?

A 'land' in a Scottish urban setting (trying to avoid using the word 'town'!) is a group of dwellings close together. The most common type of group is a block of what would now be called flats, with a common stair and a common entrance from the street. They are often informally named after the proprietor, or after a prominent resident, and the names don't always survive. Another word used to describe this sort of building is 'tenement' but that too has a different meaning in smaller rural villages, where it refers to a small piece of land, usually with a house on it. 'Tenement' also has a connotation of urban deprivation, though that is now changing as the worst slums have been demolished and replaced. Some examples of urban tenements:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5054304
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1076322
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/4052405

A Toll or Toll Bar is a place where tolls were collected from people using a road. Until the 19th century many roads were privately owned by the landowner over whose land the road led. He would build a toll house and install someone to watch passing traffic and collect a fee from each one. This person was described as a tollkeeper. Many tollhouses have survived; they can often be recognised because they incorporate windows set at 45º to the road to make it easy for the tollkeeper to watch the traffic. Tolls were aften sited on the boundary of a city, town or village.
Some examples of toll houses
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/205174
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/312044
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/823277

Newton Mearns is the largest settlement (village) in the parish of Mearns, and Neilston is the neighbouring parish. Both are in Renfrewshire, which is also known as the County of Renfrew (but never 'Renfrew County' or 'County Renfrew' - neither of these usages occurs in Scotland)

Incidentally, someone referred upthread to 'Argyllshire area'. Argyllshire, or the County of Argyll, is a historic county with defined borders, not an 'area'.

[Skoosh]

I think the county is spelled Argyle, the parish, district & dukedom is Argyll.

Skoosh.

[Forfarian]

I think the county is spelled Argyle, the parish, district & dukedom is Argyll.

I was and am under the impression that Argyle is simply an alternative, and much less common, way of spelling the name of the county.

Fullarton's Gazetteer (1842) says. "Argyle or Argyll, an extensive shire ....".

Putting "Argyle County Council" into a well-known search engine produces just 10 hits. "Argyll County Council" produces 1,210. "Argyllshire County Council" crops up 152 times, and "Argyleshire County Council" just once.

The GENUKI web site and Scotland's People both Use 'Argyll' for the county. So does this web site.

The NRS catalogue has 1755 items mentioning Argyle, only 44 of which are associated with the word 'County' and 21,724 mentioning Argyll, of which 2,617 are in association with the word 'County'.

So I will be sticking with using 'Argyll', as I always have done, to refer to the county, and using 'Argyle' for the the names of sundry streets, and of course for the well-known diamond pattern socks.

[rosie17]

The area I am in comes under Argyll & Bute 
Rosie

[amberdog]

Just wanted to say hello from another William Allan branch, but from Glasgow.   A bunch of ham curers and spirit dealers.  Not related but always interested in the name.

Excellent work there too Rosie. Enjoyed reading your findings.

[rosie17]

Thank you Amberdog
Rosie