Morland Family - Fulham area 1820s

[amondg]

I'm still puzzled by the Morland family. Margaret Elizabeth who married Thomas Thorne says she was born Knightsbridge 1861/1881 and in 1871 born Chelsea.
AMENDED wrong family above.

Yet the Ann Selina who married John Limpus consistently states born Fulham.

John Morland who died 1799 was in the carpet business, he directed that everything be sold and after debts, (he had a large mortgage) 1/3 to his wife Margaret and the remaining 2/3 divided among his children still living.
I don't see his son who was 24 when his father died becoming a mariner at that age. At 14 his father would have started to train him in the business. Then he married at St George's Hanover Square.

There is a John Morland who married Ann Heather 12 June 1803 at All Saints Fulham who seems a more likely candidate for the father of Ann Selina and Margaret who say their father is a Mariner.

I would find out where the parish registers for Fulham are located and sort this out.

[Lily M]

It just seems to be the baptisms from 1813 to 1830 that are missing.  If someone saw them in 1974, the original book may still be at the archives.  (Probably the London Metropolitan.)   Too damaged to be copied, but available to view - maybe.

The Upholsterer/Mariner occupations don't gel well.

What does fit though, is that Sarah Ann Ragless was born 1781 in Sussex. The same as the Sarah Morland on the Fulham/Parsons Green censuses.  And her death certificate shows her to be the widow of a mariner.  So the John Morland getting married in 1815 at St.George Hanover must have been the mariner.

As has been said - that baptism record needs to be seen.

[Lily M]

I wonder where the story of Ann Selina being disowned by her family was passed down from and to. 

It doesn't seem likely with parents being a mariner and dress maker.  More feasible, perhaps, would be John Morland having trouble with his family, and going off to sea - or river.

[croz]

amondg ...I'm not sure your census info (previous post)  for Margaret Elizabeth Thorne (nee Morland) is correct ? As far as I can see 1851, 1871 1881 and 1891 all have her birthplace as Middlesex or  Fulham (I can't find her in 1861)

1851 Census has this (which implies she was widowed, unless husband Thomas was out of town):

Name   Margaret E Thorne
Saint James Westminster, Middlesex
Residence    Coach Horses Yard
Age   33
Marital Status   Married
Occupation   Dress Maker
Relationship to Head of Household   Head
Birthplace   Fulham, Middlesex
Page Number   41
Registration Number   HO107
Piece/Folio   1485 / 372


1871
Name   Margt Eliz Thorne
St George, London, Middlesex,
Enumeration District   3
Age   53
Marital Status   Widowed
Occupation   Upholstress
Relationship to Head of Household   Head
Birthplace   Middlesex


1881 (living with SOn William and family)

Name   Margaret E Thorne
Lambeth, London,Surrey
Registration District   Lambeth
Residence Note   Rattray Rd
Age   63
Marital Status   Widow
Relationship to Head of Household   Mother
Birthplace   Fulham, Middlesex
Page Number   61
Registration Number   RG11
Piece/Folio   623/117

1891 (still with son William and family)
Name:   Margaret Thorne
Parish:   Wandsworth
Ecclesiastical Parish:   ST FAITHS
Residence   Birdhurst Road
Age:   74
Marital Status:   Widow
Relationship to Head of Household:   Mother
Page Number:   26
Line Number:   23
Registration Number:   RG12
Piece/Folio:   448/ 73


 I can't see Thomas Thorne on 1851 or later census ...so I'm not sure where the coach man to a baroness info comes from ?

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[croz]

I wonder where the story of Ann Selina being disowned by her family was passed down from and to. 

It doesn't seem likely with parents being a mariner and dress maker.  More feasible, perhaps, would be John Morland having trouble with his family, and going off to sea - or river.

The story came down in our family, at least, from my aunt and grandmother (who was Ann Selina's granddaughter)...I also have it  via the great grandson of Oliver Morland Limpus, Ann Selina's son born 1859 ...although his version has John Limpus as the gardener, where I believe he was a footman (or at least he was stated as such on his marriage certificate.

[croz]

John Morland who died 1799 was in the carpet business,
.

His address may have been  "Carpet Warehouse Princes Street" in July 1798 (from coroner's jury record, I think) but he was according to his will and other information an "upholder" (which I know can mean a number of things,  "Upholder" is an archaic word for "upholsterer". In past times upholders carried out not just the manufacture and sale of upholstered goods but were cabinet makers, undertakers, soft furnishers, auctioneers and valuers ). He certainly was in business as "Ravald and Morland" in the 1780s in London and made  a desk and other items in 1784 for The Prince of Wales (later George IV) (he even got paid for them in 1785 !) He appears in various trade directories at the time as a cabinet maker. It is of course entirely possible that we have been looking since the 1970s and beyond, at the wrong John Morland(s) .....but as the original(1974) research that I have was pre-internet and based on local record office data ...and quotes John Morland and Sara Ann Regless children as being "baptised in All Saints Church, Fulham....I hope not. I think a visit to the church is a good next step !

[Lily M]

This Thomas ties in as being the son of the following Samuel Thorne, who is with Margaret's son Thomas

1851 Epsom

Digby Neane   54   Baronet
Margaret Neane   Dau   4

then 7 servants including
Thomas Thorne   29   Coachman   Brentwood, Essex

Says he's unmarried, but servants often say that when it isn't true


1851  Marylebone
Samuel Thorne   56   Coachman   Romford, Essex
Jane Thorne   wife   58
Thomas Thorne   g.son   4           Marylebone


I can't find any of them in 1861

[Lily M]

Churches no longer hold their old records.   If the Fulham baptisms for those years still exist, they'd be at the London Metropolian Archives

[croz]

Thanks for the LMA pointer.....