Author Topic: Morland Family - Fulham area 1820s  (Read 5960 times)

Offline croz

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Re: Morland Family - Fulham area 1820s
« Reply #45 on: Sunday 13 August 17 00:09 BST (UK) »
All theories welcome ..... the date "inscribed" on the backing slate could be 1843 or 1848 ...my best guess is 1843 but it could have been "inscribed" much later. We could have enough material here for a mini-series ...I will certainly get the death cert for JM 1845 ...whether it is the right JM remains to be seen ...watch this space !
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)

Offline croz

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Re: Morland Family - Fulham area 1820s
« Reply #46 on: Thursday 31 August 17 10:59 BST (UK) »
Latest update - copy of John Morland 1845 death certificate obtained...details are :


Date of death 24 July 1845
Place Fulham Fields
John Moreland (spelt with an "e")
Age 70
Occupation CARPENTER
cause of death Gout
Informant - Rebekah Frances, present at the death, residence Fulham Fields.

As far as I can see "Fulham Fields" is a generic district...I cannot pin down any more detailed location. Rebekah Frances seems to have been a nurse (at least from 1851 census information, although the name spelling is slightly different).

So - we still have the anomaly of the 1843 and 1844 Sailor and Mariner occupation details, from his daughters' marriage certificates and the "mariner's widow" reference on his wife's death cert in 1866. Otherwise the occupation thread, gleaned from baptism and census information goes :

1817 "Gent"         (baptism record)
1820 Carpenter    (baptism record)
1822 Carpenter    (baptism record)
1841 Upholsterer  (Census)
1845 Carpenter     (Death cert)

I really cannot make sense of it ......I cannot see any way that the John Morland who baptised Ann Selina and Margaret Elizabeth can be a different person from the father of both of them at the time of their marriages ... so where did the sailor and mariner come from ??????
Looking at dates - born in 1775, married in 1815, first child baptised 1817 (when JM was 42) I suppose it might be possible that he was a sailor/mariner before his marriage (my original family tree compiler used the expression (JM) "was for many years a sailor ...then upholsterer.." but I don't know on what evidence he based that sequence of occupation events .....a sequence which cannot apparently be supported from what I have now uncovered).  Why, however, his daughters (and widow, or at least her death informant, who was, I think, a niece of Ann Selina Morland's husband John Limpus) would have preferred "sailor" or "mariner" as his occupation rather than "carpenter" is strange.......incidentally his widow, Sarah Ann, was listed as "late dressmaker" in the 1851 census and "alms woman" in the 1861 census ...never as "mariner's widow"....or even "carpenter's widow"
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)

Offline Lily M

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Morland Family - Fulham area 1820s
« Reply #47 on: Thursday 31 August 17 17:22 BST (UK) »
Thanks for letting us know what was on the death certificate.  It does at least prove you have the right man.

As for the various occupations   ???

Offline croz

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Re: Morland Family - Fulham area 1820s
« Reply #48 on: Wednesday 27 November 19 18:11 GMT (UK) »
In case anyone comes across this post two years after my last update...I believe I have now found the 1841 census record for Ann Selina Morland.......she appears as Ann MoreEland in the household of Lady Malkin, widow of  Sir Benjamn Heath Malkin (1797-1837), circuit judge in Britain, Recorder of Straits Settlements 1832-35, Judge of Supreme Court, Calcutta 1835-37, at Little Mulgrave House in Fulham. She is listed, I believe, as "F S"...ie Female Servant. What convinces me that this is "my" Ann Selina is the fact that one Emily Samber is also listed in the household...I noted in a previous post in this thread that Emily (indistinct but probably "Samber") was one of the witnesses at Ann Selina's marriage in 1843.
The fact that Ann Selina was a servant in Lady Malkin's household in 1841 now almost completely debunks the handed down story that she was disowned" by the Morland family for "eloping" with a footman working "on the Morland estate". I am now convinced there was no "estate" and although her husband John was a footman or manservant there is no evidence he worked for the Morland family.....still no solution, however, to John Morland's multiple occupations.....!
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)


Offline regmay

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Morland Family - Fulham area 1820s
« Reply #49 on: Sunday 26 July 20 21:57 BST (UK) »
Hi Croz,

I am related to the Ragless family (Sarah Ann married John Morland) and came across the following in my research, which you may be interested in.

1925 Letter Extract by Selina Sorby (nee Limpus) (1852-1932)

"Aunt S?? told me that my grandma (Sarah Ragless, born at Angmering but adopted by an Aunt at Waltham Green (Walham Green, Fulham, Middlesex)) went to do sewing at the house of Mrs Morland & heard her and her two daughters talking about the expected return of the only son, after many years absence. Within 6 weeks of his return, he had married the little dressmaker - she 34 and he 40 years old. Her aunt disowned her & adopted her younger sister (Jane Ragless) who married with her consent and inherited her few houses etc. etc. (my Great Aunt Mrs Bohne who lived to be 95). His mother would have nothing more to do with him & at her death left all her property to her two daughters. (She kept her carriage etc..) with the exception of £20 a year to her son for his life, which he refused to accept. I fancy they must have been very poor, but in my estimation he was lucky to get such a wife. She was a dear little woman, very clever in all household accomplishments, could cook, knit & sew, taught her daughters (illegible). I have a silver tablespoon with her initials & another with those of an older sister, that were always spoken of as 'christening presents' & I remember her three brothers coming to see father when I was 16 - the year after grandma died (1866) and inviting James and I to Angmering. But we never went. When my uncle John was born the Morland family undertook to educate and provide for him & trustees were appointed. He was to have gone to Eton - but after he was drowned at 9yrs of age - nothing was ever done for my Aunt or my mother".

I also believe that John Morland contested the beadleship of Fulham parish in 1828 (Feret's "Fulham Old and New") and was described, in a handbill,  as being "for many years in the arduous and honourable service of his king and country at sea".
See my website for research names: http://www.mayhum.net

Offline croz

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
    • View Profile
Re: Morland Family - Fulham area 1820s
« Reply #50 on: Monday 27 July 20 11:26 BST (UK) »
Thanks regmay for this valuable information. I have replied separately to your personal message.

Best wishes
Croz
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Morland family - Westmorland, Kent (Court Lodge), Soho (London) , Fulham/Parsons Green (Middlesex).
Limpus family - Fulham/Putney (Middlesex) - Ragless and Penfold families (West Sussex)