Author Topic: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham  (Read 5207 times)

Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,737
  • https://www.apigintime.net/blog
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham
« Reply #27 on: Monday 05 December 16 15:14 GMT (UK) »
Looks like Charles Cecil Fox ends up out in Canada.  On his enlistment papers he gives the following details for NOK:
Kate Fox,
Gwalia, 23 Chelmsford Ave, Southend on Sea

date Nov 20th 1914

I cannot find any evidence at the moment for a Kate Fox being at that address - she isn't there in 1939. To be honest, I can't find any evidence that a Kate Fox exists at all.  I think I have found Charles in Canada on the 1920 Canadian census in Tilbury East, Ontario.  He gives his date of immigration as 1903 which made me wonder if he was a Barnados Home Child, which then led me to this reference: http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/home-children-1869-1930/immigration-records/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=99820

Offline hadenmaiden

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham
« Reply #28 on: Monday 05 December 16 15:43 GMT (UK) »
 :D
I think we'd make a great detective between us!!
Yes,  the 1911 Shoebury  Harry Dean is the same as the 1901 Great Wakering Harry Fox.  I'm pretty confident this is the man, and will get a birth certificate to confirm at least one parent!
As far as fitting in with the Joslins, they were in the same village, with pretty small population, I suspect that it was a case of him latching on to a mother substitute who would offer a bit of support [but don't have any primary evidence for that, at this stage it's a hunch!!]
Caroline L shows as Caroline L Dean in 1891, relation to head - stepdaughter.  Head of household was Robert Deane, wife Sarah - married 1873, Rochford.
So, it appears that Caroline is likely the mother of Harry, and half sister to the Dean brothers. This explains why Harry took the surname Dean.
Spidermonkey -  top marks for observation! There isn't a physical link between the this and the Lambeth Harry Dean [as far as I know - that really would freak me out!!]  I have a WW1 Death Penny in the name of Harry Dean and am trying to research possibilities to be able to make sure whichever one he was, he will be remembered.  ;)
 Great work, team, much appreciated!!
Haden, Edwards, Bradley, Lamb, Cooper, Pool, Hepton, Ellam, Wilbe, Taylor

Offline hadenmaiden

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham
« Reply #29 on: Monday 05 December 16 15:45 GMT (UK) »
Spider monkey - Please accept a virtual medal from me!!!
I am just thrilled to bits to find a Dean link with the British home Children - my absolute pet obsession! You've made an old [ish] lady very happy today  :D :D :D
Haden, Edwards, Bradley, Lamb, Cooper, Pool, Hepton, Ellam, Wilbe, Taylor

Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,737
  • https://www.apigintime.net/blog
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham
« Reply #30 on: Monday 05 December 16 15:50 GMT (UK) »
Can't guarantee that it is correct - but at the moment it seems to stack up!

Just trying to work out the circumstances where the Dean family would put an 8 year old boy on a boat knowing they would probably never see him again.

So far, it looks as if
Sarah Ann Dean (Caroline's mother) dies in 1895 (Rochford 4a 276)
Robert Dean (so Caroline's step father) dies in 1898 (Rochford 4a 377)

1911 - James Dean is a boarder in Southend
George Dean is on a Barge

I wonder if the Joslins decided to take on Harry as an informal adoption/fostering around the same time Charlie was sent away?


Offline hadenmaiden

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham
« Reply #31 on: Monday 05 December 16 16:07 GMT (UK) »
Spider monkey, the family probably didn't have a lot of choice!  Over 100,000 children were emigrated from the UK to Canada over the years. Some were orphans, very many weren't.  My two great uncles were sent in 1909 from a local children's home in Wolverhampton - both parents still alive, but very poor.  Once the boys reached the age of 5 they were considered old enough to work, and both countries did pretty well out of the exchange financially - it was just the families and children who didn't always see an positive results!
Some of the children were well treated and made a good life, others were treated pretty much as slaves. Many died young, many ran away and there were more than a few incidences of suicide.
 Happy to pass on links if you'd like to read more about the system.  There's also a really good group on Facebook if you find any family links that you need to explore.
I've declared this query resolved now - thank you to everyone - I wouldn't have got this far, or even close -  on my own!  Your time and effort is really appreciated  ;) ;) ;)
Haden, Edwards, Bradley, Lamb, Cooper, Pool, Hepton, Ellam, Wilbe, Taylor

Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,737
  • https://www.apigintime.net/blog
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham
« Reply #32 on: Monday 05 December 16 16:14 GMT (UK) »
I understand why people did use the Barnados system, and can appreciate that for some people there really was no other option so my comments weren't a criticism.  I was just trying to understand what events had happened in the Dean family's life to see how they could get to that point - and the death of the two grandparents (Robert and Sarah Ann) must have had a huge impact on the family.  (Got to admit though, having an 8 year old son called Charlie myself, that there may have been an emotional reaction to it  :'()

Offline hadenmaiden

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham
« Reply #33 on: Monday 05 December 16 16:26 GMT (UK) »
Spidermonkey - not taken as a criticism at all - sorry if the response came over that way, I didn't intend it to! There's a really good seminar on the National archives [I think] website, that includes a letter from a father begging for his sons not to be sent to Canada, because they are all he has left after the death of his wife.  Needless to say, his pleas were in vain. The British home Children are a bit of a hobby horse of mine, and I tend to go on a bit  ;D
I discovered earlier this year that over 1000 of them died in WW1 fighting for the country that shipped them out to another continent so they weren't a social problem here!  Currently working with one of the agencies that sent them to see if we can raise funds for an appropriate memorial.
Haden, Edwards, Bradley, Lamb, Cooper, Pool, Hepton, Ellam, Wilbe, Taylor

Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,737
  • https://www.apigintime.net/blog
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham
« Reply #34 on: Monday 05 December 16 16:36 GMT (UK) »
I remember reading about "Home Children" in Anne of Green Gables, but at the time didn't appreciate what the difference was with orphans coming from an orphanage and a home child.

Both Harry Dean (Hockley) and Harry Dean (Lambeth) have fascinating stories - it would make a fab article (One Death Penny, Two Harries!)


Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,737
  • https://www.apigintime.net/blog
    • View Profile
Re: Harry Dean, Hockley, Birmingham
« Reply #35 on: Monday 05 December 16 17:15 GMT (UK) »
If Charles C Fox is 'ours' then this is the end of his chapter http://geneofun.on.ca/names/photo/1309153