Stuart family tree

[Laurastuart33]

Hi, I am after information as I have come to a dead end.  My 3rd great grandfather was John Stuart 1837 and was married to Jessie McKay 1852. I know johns parents were John Stuart and Margaret Findlay. I have no ideas on dates as I can't seem to find anything on and family tree site. Also I can't seem to find Jessie's parents either. Just wondering if anybody can help at all. They were from Inveravon, Banffshire.
Kind regards

[CaroleW]

Hi and welcome to Rootschat

Can you just clarify

My 3rd great grandfather was John Stuart 1837 and was married to Jessie McKay 1852

Are these birthyears or is 1852 the marriage year?

If it is the marriage year - John would only have been 15yrs old at that time

[CaroleW]

Is this their marriage - from Family Search

Name    John Stewart
Spouse's Name    Jessie Mckay
Event Date    14 Jun 1872
Event Place    Central District,Glasgow,Lanark,Scotland

[Laurastuart33]

Sorry they are their birth years. I will have a look at that one, surname isn't spelt that way but I'll have a gander

[Millmoor]

Hi

A warm welcome from me too.

If I have the correct family the census information would appear to give some clues.

1891 Address Laggan
John 53
Jessie 39
George 17
John 4
William 2
Charles 1 mo
Isabella Stuart mother in law 69

1881 same address

John 43
James 12
Ann 8
George6

James Stuart birth 21 Dec 1869 Inveravon Parents John Stuart and Jessie McKay.

1871 census has James Stuart at Mure Cottage Glenlivet

Isabella Stuart 84 Head
Isabella Stuart 49 Daughter
Jannet McKay 19 Granddaughter
James Stuart 1 G Grandson
Margaret Spalan 14 Granddaughter

My suspicion is that James was illegitimate and that Jessie was the illegitimate daughter of Isabella Stuart. John Stuart seems to be with parents in 1871 in Laggan (father however is showing as James?!) In 1881 he is recorded as unmarried and so it may be worth looking for a marriage between 1881 and 1891 as he is recorded as married to Jessie in 1891.

This seems quite a complicated set up! It might be worth trying the "libindx" site which has lots of useful data for Banffshire as well as for Moray. I also think locating the birth certs. for the children on Scotlands People would be worthwhile as would the deaths' of John and Jessie. If you can locate them in the 1911 census that should help to pinpoint the year of their marriage.

William

Added Jessie can be a pet name for Janet and Jane. In 1861 Jessie seems to be recorded as Jane T McKay and is again with the two Isabella Stuarts.

[Forfarian]

surname isn't spelt that way but I'll have a gander

Don't get hung up on spelling. You may spell it in a particular way now, but your ancestors were not so fussy.

One of my great-great-grandfather's sisters married a William Stewart in 1850. His surname is spelled in different ways - in his marriage record it is Stewart and in the baptism of his eldest son six weeks later it is Stuart - and so are those of his family. Spellings became more fixed about the beginning of the 20th century, but some of his descendants now spell it Stuart and others Stewart.

I have no ideas on dates as I can't seem to find anything on and family tree site.

Are you looking on the right sites? See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

Once you have looked at the 1872 marriage certificate at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk you will know the names of both John's and Jessie's parents.

According to FamilySearch www.familysearch.org John and Jessie had at least three children
James born 21 December 1869 in Inveravon, Banffshire
Unnamed daughter born 26 February 1873 in Glasgow Blythswood (probably died in infancy)
Ann born 17 March 1874 in Glasgow Bridgeton

The 1881 census says that John and Ann were born in the parish of Kirkmichael, and that James and George were born in Glenlivet. There is also a housekeeper, Ann Sharp, aged 42, born Glenlivet. I wondered if Jessie might perhaps be in hospital, but I can't find her.

Note that the family is in Laggan in the parish of Inveravon. There is a parish of Laggan in Badenoch in Inverness-shire, and the Laggan Locks on the Caledonian Canal in the parish of Kilmonivaig, as well as umpteen other Laggans that haven't sprung to mind. If you look for Laggan on any map at a smaller scale than 1:50,000 you will not find the right place.

See http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ2026 for a map showing your Laggan. It's near Blairfindy and The Glenlivet Distillery.

This http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=57.3253&lon=-3.3129&layers=5&b=1 is your Laggan on the mid-Victorian Ordnance Survey map.

It's impossible to stress enough how essential the parish is for any genealogical research outwith the major cities until the mid-20th century.

[Millmoor]

I cannot find Jessie in the 1881 census either, Forfarian- nor can I find Isabella Stuart in that census. This may well, however, be Isabella in the 1901 census.

Address Laggan Cottage, Inveravon, Glenlivet, Banffshire

Isabella Stuart Head single 80 retired domestic servant b Glenlivet
Maggie Spalding or McBean daughter widow 40 servant (domestic) b Glenlivet (suspect that Spalding is a more accurate transcription of the Spalan I quoted earlier from the 1871 census).

It would, therefore, appear that Isabella had more than one illegitimate child. Just in case you are not aware of this, in this period illegitimacy in rural Banffshire was amongst the highest in Scotland and so this situation is far from being unique. (I have encountered many illegitimate births among my own Banffshire ancestors).

I cannot see a death for Isabella between 1901 and 1911 but there is one in Glenlivet in 1912, age 91 which is likely to be her. Her death cert will hopefully give the names of her parents (her mother, also Isabella is showing as a widow in the 1861 and 1871census - 1861 born Knockando, Moray and 1871 b Kirkmichael, Banffshire). You should also be able to locate Isabella in the 1911 census.

William

[Millmoor]

I think this may be the death for Jessie.

McKay Jessie age 70 1922 Ref 157/2 7 RD Glenlivet (death for Jessie Stuart has exactly the same reference number).

William

[Forfarian]

Just in case you are not aware of this, in this period illegitimacy in rural Banffshire was amongst the highest in Scotland and so this situation is far from being unique.

T C Smout, in his book A Century of the Scottish People 1830-1950, says, "Commentators had little to say on the matter [of illegitimacy] until the 1850s, when the Registrar-General published, for the first time, the statistics of illegitimate births. This showed three salient and remarkable features. Firstly, illegitimacy was on average higher in Scotland than in England and most of Europe. Secondly, it was generally higher in the countryside than in the towns, which was unusual in a European context. Lastly, it was very much higher in some parts of the countryside than in others. In 1861-65, for example, the proportion of illegitimate births was 16.6 per cent in Banffshire compared to 4.2 per cent in Ross and Cromarty; close analysis of the returns for 1855 (the only year for which this exercise is possible) shows that a teenage girl in Banff was more than twenty times as likely to have a bastard as one in Ross, and the risk even for girls in their twenties was between four and six times greater in Banff than Ross. Such extraordinary statistical disparities obviously showed that there were real differences in what was regared as acceptable sexual behaviour among the working classes in different parts of the country. It was easy to see this but difficult to explain it, though many made the attempt."

This analysis, as far as I know, did not include those born in wedlock, but only just. I have read somewhere that if those born less than a decorous interval after their parents' marriage are included, the proportion of illegitimate conceptions is closer to 20%, but I can't find that reference just now.