Lyne family

[Archivist_47]

According to their marriage certificate, William James Smith was 39 when he married Harriet on 21st December 1893. I make that 1854 as his birthdate.

[suzard]

As you probably know ages on marriage (or death) are not always accurate.
As Harriet Cherrie was only 26 when William James Smith married her then it would not beunusual for him to knock a year or two off his age -keeping him under 40 - also exact age didn't seem to be so important at that time
To me it seems most likely the 1852 birth  Stoke Dameral is the correct one for "your" William James Smith- also he had a sister Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith b. 1849 (from previous posts y ciderdrinker)

Hopefully this will help you untangle

this is the marriage from image of Parish register
Page 199 Entry no 397
St Peters in the Parish of Parkstone county of Dorset
Marriage by licence
William James Smith 39 Bachelor Commander RMS address Southampton father James William Smith occ Royal Navy (retired) (note Retired not deceased)
Harriet Cherrie Miles 26 spinster address Parkstone father John Miles occ Miller
witnesses John Sidney Hudson, ?(sorry can't read 1st name)Maria anne Hawker and Frances A J A Barstow
all signed

it seems 1901 William James Smith's father was still iving and had daughter (now married) Elizabeth Mary Lyne Huntingdon living with him

1901
279 Uxbridge Rd Hammersmith
James Smith Head W 87 Retired Naval Officer Stonehouse Devon
Thomas S Huntingdon Married 54 Surveyor Stanstead Essex
Elizabeth M L Huntingdon daughter M 51 Devonport
Constance M Huntingdon granddaughter 23 Weybridge Surrey
Frances A Huntingdon granddaughter 17 Shepherds Bush London
RG13 4182 13

(there is a complication with Elizabeth Mary Lyne -but will come to that later!)

and one of the witnesses at William James /Harriet Cherrie marriage was Frances A J A Barstow
Frances Amelia Julia Ann Barstow was the widow of Henry William Barstow
Her maiden name was LYNE - she was the daughter of Richard Lyne and Amelia

and William James Smith was the son of James William Smith and Frances Lyne
at the marriage of James William Smith and Frances Lyne the witnesses were Richard and Amelia Lynne
Richard Lyne and Frances Smith (neeLyne were brother and sister)

Frances Amelia Julia Ann Barstow (neeLyne) was the daughter of Richard and Amelia Lyne

so Frances Amelia Julia Ann was the cousin of William James Smith
William James Smith was the nephew of Richard Smith

if you go back over previous posts you will find references to this information

When you feel ready to read the complication with William James Smith's sister Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith just ask

Suz

[Archivist_47]

Thank you Suz you have put your heart and soul into this. My grandmother was Mavis Lyne Smith, daughter of Harriet Cherrie Smith. Some of my cousins were given the Lyne Christian name at birth so the origin of their names will no doubt be of interest to them.

[Archivist_47]

Hit me with the Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith Suz. And I see that you're a Holmes researcher, I too have been exploring that surname.

[suzard]

will post information later tonight

Suz

[suzard]

Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith
birth reg Set qtr 1849 Stoke Damerel

1871
17 Hyd?? Cottages greenwich
James W Smith head W 55 Storekeeper? Greenwich Hospital School Stonehouse Devon
Elizabeth M L daughter U 21 Devonport
Susan Cain servant 19 Deptford Kent
RG10 754 89 25

1881
38 Loftus Rd Fulham
James Smith head W 64 retired clerk Plymouth
Elizabeth Smith daughter U 31 Devonport
Sydney Raven grandson 5 Southend Essex
Constance Raven granddaughter 4 Weybridge Surrey
Constance Stedman servant 17 general servant Horsham Sussex
RG11 62 120 28

the Raven grandchildren were the children of Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith
she married the father of the children in 1882

Marriage by licence
23 Nov 1882

St Luke W Holloway Islington
Thomas Sidney Raven full age Bachelor Auctioneer Annette Rd father Joseph Raven deceased
Elizabeth Mary Lyne Smith full age spinster father James Smith retired Naval Officer
witnessesJames William Smith Sarah Tims

their children were baptised after the parents married
BaptismsSt Stephen Shepherds Bush
all baptised on 21 Nov 1883
Parents Thomas Sydney Raven and Elizabeth Mary Lyne
address 38 Loftus Rd
father's occupation Surveyor
Sydney Lyne Smith Raven born 16 Jan 1876
Constance Maude Smith Raven born 13 Dec 1876
Frances Anabel Raven born 4 Sept 1883 (Elizabeth Mary Lyne's mother was Frances and Thomas Sydney Raven's mother was Anabel

as you will have noticed on 1901 census Thomas Sidney & Elizabeth Mary Lyne and the children have the surname Huntingdon - that is because Thomas Sydney changed his name -supposedly by putting a notice in the newspaper -he had a couple of spells in prison - you can read the full details on the Old bailey site
28 May 1877 Thomas Sydney Raven was charged at the Old bailey of unlawfully obtaining by false pretences from Arthur Briant an order for the payment of 100 with intent to cheat and defraud and was sentenced to penal servitude
He had also been found guilty of similar charge in 1866

22 Oct 1888 old Bailey
Thomas Sydney Huntingdon age 44 was charged with feloniously offering a forged acquittance and receipt for £99 7s 6d with intent to defraud - during the case  it was confirmed he had changed his name from Raven to Huntingdon He pleaded guilty to a previous conviction May 1877 after a former conviction of 8 years penal servitude

so that's where the Huntingdon came from!!

When he married he described himself as a Bachelor but he was already married with children!!!

Marriage Page 25 entry 49
St Mary Islington
Thomas Sydney Raven full age widower (haven't found his previous wife) Gent 5 Willow Cottages father  Joseph Raven occ Gent
Ellen Sarah Spokes full age Widow 43 Alfred St father John Abraham Windsor wholesale stationer
witnesses Henry Billy & Catherine Smith (wonder if Catherine was related to Elizabeth mary Lyne Smith??)

Ellen Sarah Windsor married William Spokes Dec qtr 1865 Clerkenwell

Ellen Sarah had 2 children with Thomas Sydney Raven (later Huntingdon)

1871 Ellen Sarah Spokes was a 23 yr old widow living with her mother and brother

1881
71 Dynevor Rd Hackney
Ellen Windsor Head W 55 Annuitant Clerkenwell
Ellen Raven daughter 33 MARRIED SEPARATED  solicitors wife
Sydney Raven grandson8 Islington
John Raven son 7 Islington
RG11 282 96 41
1891
71 Dynevor Rd Hackney
Ellen Windsor Head W 65 own means Islington
Ellen S Raven MARRIED 43 Pattern card maker Bermondsey
Kate Windsor daughter U 34
Sydney W Raven grandson 18 Clerk Islington
John A Raven grandson 17 Pattern card Maker Islington
RG12 180 69 9

interesting ?

Suz