Charters Family - Antrim

[gaffy]

On a general point and at fear of contradiction, the name 'Robert Winslow Charters' seems to me a very singular name and it also seems like stretching co-incidence too far to disregard any connection to someone with that same name in the county of interest (based on Robert senior's birthplace as stated in the 1901 census return for house 6 in Charlotte Street), for example, as mentioned in these couple of early 1840s newspaper notices:

Thursday 1 October 1840: On Monday, the 21st instant, Robert Winslow Charters, Esq., of Aughboy, Longford, of a son and heir

Friday 25 February 1842: INSOLVENT DEBTORS' COURT. Robert Winslow Charters, late of Mount-street, Dublin; and previously of Longford, co. Longford; and formerly of Aughaboy, said co. esq.
 
There is also an 1864 newspaper notice offering for sale at auction the townlands of Aughaboy and Killeter in county Longford, on lease for three lives with a fine on the fall of a life, the last renewal being in 1836 for the lives of James Charters (dead), Robert Winslow Charters and William Fetherston Charters (both living).
 
Familysearch and Ancestry have a few bits and pieces for that name, but not a lot.

[aghadowey]

Wonder if the name 'Robert Winslow Charters' is one that goes back quite far and has been used in many branches over the years? Put the full name in Family Search and there are lots of different ones coming up 

[David Winther]

If I didn't mention before, yes, the David Winther tree on ancestry is my tree. I hope you can all see it. My Great-Grandmother Elizabeth (Charters) Stephens is my mothers, mothers, mother.

I also noticed the repeated use of Robert Charters as a name as well. I think that the 1 Oct 1840 one is the husband of Mary as it also matches up with the 1901 census showing him to be 60 years old living on Charlotte Street in Belfast. Hence I don't think the dairyman Robert Charters that died at age 47 is him...but who IS this? The 1901 census shows him as a clerk.

The Robert Charters and Charter family we appear to be talking about seem to center around Clonbroney, Co. Longford. The Tithe and Applotment books show a Robert Charters with 5 entries in 1825 in Cavan, Etherland, and 3 in Ballinalea, Clonbroney, Co, Longford. I have to make an assumption that this is a father or more likely a grandfather the our Robert Charters born 1840 and father to my GG. Again, the 1901 Census show Co, Longford as birthplace to both Robert and Mary.

 http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Charters&firstname=Robert&county=Longford&parish=&townland=&search=Search

The Enumerator's Abstract from the 1901 census also shows them as 1 being Roman Catholic (Robert Charters) and 2 Church of Ireland. I suspect this resulted in the delayed baptisms for the children. The other children list no religious preference. The family literally lived in the shadow of St Malachy so I'm sure it was also convenient for the family to worship there as well. I know my Great-Grandmother was not Catholic when she lived in the states *not to say that she might not have been raised one).

There is so much new information here for me to try and process. Again, I can not thank you all for the help! Looking into my family is something that I had want to do for a long time. With mysteries on both my mothers and fathers side...well let's just say I have had so much fun trying to unravel them!

Are any of you good a Danish lines?! That is the other mystery I face!   

[David Winther]

Now something speculative, a marriage in Belfast in 1917 between a George Smith and a Janetta Elizabeth Kirkpatrick of 10 Constance Street, the bride's father given as Hugh Kirkpatrick:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09750/5538455.pdf

Intriguingly, the 1918 Belfast street directory shows the following entry for Constance Street: 10. Kirkpatrick, H. W. (possibly Hugh Warner?)

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1918_b.htm

The 1920 Liverpool-Quebec passenger list and arrivals form (mentioned @ reply #27) was for Janet / Janetta Kirkpatrick and stated that she was single, so the 1917 marriage is perhaps just a co-incidence of names, just worth noting for now until it can be ruled in or out.

Hmmm...on that marriage cert it lists him as a Private with the 7/8 Battalion, Royal Irish Fusiliers. Possible that the marriage ended with his death in the war? 

[David Winther]

... This sounds like a mother who really wanted to get in touch with her children.

Yes, the notices ran from 9 December 1922 to 24 February 1923.

During this entire process, I'm struck wondering WHY Mary gave up her children? Was it purely for financial reasons? Being a widow I'm sure she was in dire need of assistance. A heartbreaking story really.

One comment that my Aunt made was that my GG tried to hide anything in her life that said "Charters". My uncle Jack wasn't adopted by my great-grandfather until just before he left for WWII. He changed his last name to Stephens when that happened, but his high school graduation diploma said Charters on it, but apparently he went by Stephens prior to being adopted. When my GG was asked about his father in Ireland, she apparently became very angry and would not talk about it, simply insisting that his adoptive father was his father.

[aghadowey]

I think that the 1 Oct 1840 one is the husband of Mary as it also matches up with the 1901 census showing him to be 60 years old living on Charlotte Street in Belfast. Hence I don't think the dairyman Robert Charters that died at age 47 is him...but who IS this? The 1901 census shows him as a clerk.

Can understand why you are sceptical but look back at the timeline I posted yesterday(reply #33).

We know the birth certificates for his children and the 1901 census are the correct family. Robert's occupation goes from labourer (1885-1896) then clerk 1899 (Robert's birth) to 1901 (census & directory).
Skipping ahead a bit, we know that the marriage of Kathleen Charters to William Kirkpatrick is correct. On the marriage (1904) father's occupation is dairyman (same as daughter Kate gave for 1903 death certificate). Kathleen's occupation on the marriage certificate is dairymaid.
Also, Robert is buried (1903) in same plot his two daughters were buried in (1893).
So, for some reason Robert's age on the death certificate (and cemetery record) is incorrect but it's likely Kathleen didn't know exactly when her father was born.

I also this the 1840 baptism is likely to be correct, which means that both Robert and Mary were raised Catholic. Would still like to find their marriage though.

It may be that Mary didn't 'give up' her children willingly. In 1903, when her husband died, most of the children were quite young- Kate (19), Fanny (14), Charlotte (12), Elizabeth (7), Robert (not yet 4). Kate got married just over a year later but in the interim perhaps helped support the family. Five years later, Fanny & Charlotte go to Canada as Home children- they may have been in a Home in Belfast before that with mother intending to get them back as soon as she could. We know that Robert went to a Home in Dublin (by 1911) and then to Canada (1913) also as a Home Child.
Reading the appeals in the newspaper (1922/1923), Mary knew her children went to Canada and called them by the names they were called in the family (Kitty, Lizzie, etc.) rather than Kathleen, Elizabeth, etc.

[aghadowey]

Since 3 of the children were Home children there might be records about them and the family situation.

Also meant to add that when Mary was widowed in 1903 there was unlikely to have been any family members nearby that could help.

[jamcat95]

Are any of you good a Danish lines?! That is the other mystery I face!

I can take a look if you want.

Ian

[gaffy]

... Hmmm...on that marriage cert it lists him as a Private with the 7/8 Battalion, Royal Irish Fusiliers. Possible that the marriage ended with his death in the war?

The only one I could find so far was this one, but as you will see, he just doesn't fit well at all (other than the timing).

It was an accidental drowning in Belfast Lough on 17 November 1919.  This George was described as: 18 in the CWGC website; 20 in his death registration; and about 18 1/2 in the newspaper reports covering the incident and inquest. This George was described as bachelor / unmarried in the death registration and newspaper reports.  This George was in the Norfolk regiment.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/661132/SMITH,%20GEORGE

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05140/4416048.pdf