Author Topic: BRASH in and near Abercorn  (Read 2305 times)

Offline Fordyce

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Re: BRASH in and near Abercorn
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 26 July 17 00:17 BST (UK) »
Hi Dorrie,
Four others:
- George Chattam, born 26-2-1877 died 21-4-1877 of hereditary syphilis
- George Chattam, born 17-5-1885 died 22-12-1886 of scarlet fever
- William Chattam, born 25-3-1889 died 9-10-1889 of chronic diarrhoea
- Sarah Chattam, born 30-3-1893 died 1-6-1900 (as Sarah Chatham) of pulmonary phthisis

Oddly, son John b 1879 was recorded as Chattie upon birth and death.
I take it you've got wind of dau Margaret's conviction for bigamy in 1918?!

My gtgtgdfather is John Chattie b 1809/10 Abercorn s/o Thomas Shatton & Agnes Chapman. I've never found a birth record for him (nor his siblings for that matter, even though the Abercorn OPR has records of the deaths of their youngsters and there is an MI in Abercorn churchyard, so they were established church). The first record of John is when, as John Chattie a joiner at Liberton Dams, he married Mary Pentland from Little France on 28-11-1833 in Liberton. After a couple of children in Liberton, they had moved to Glasgow by 25-5-1837. It seems to be in the 1850s when he and his entire family took to Chatham.

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Offline Forfarian

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Re: BRASH in and near Abercorn
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 26 July 17 09:05 BST (UK) »
Last year I learned (the hard way, but not me personally) that chronic diarrhoea is one of the symptoms of cancer of the pancreas. The tumour inhibits the production of the enzymes necessary for digestion of food, and the sufferer dies of starvation/malnutrition. Though in the case of William, who died in infancy, cancer was probably not the cause of his diarrhoea.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

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Offline Fordyce

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Re: BRASH in and near Abercorn
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 26 July 17 15:23 BST (UK) »
By coincidence I've just finished reading Guthrie Hutton's short history of Shale Oil (2010) as well as Harry Knox's tour de force Vanished Railways of West Lothian (2017) (and have seen the recent TV program on James 'Paraffin' Young). This Chattam family lived in and just off Greendykes Road which was right in the middle of the shale fields. Others will know better than I do I'm sure, but these houses were built for the workers by the various Oil and Shale companies and were generally of desparately appalling quality.

In 1901 the Chattams lived at 48 Stewartfield, one of 92 Broxburn Oil Co's houses "cradled by the Albyn crude oil works bing, a location that even the most inventive estate agent would have had difficulty putting a gloss on" (Guthrie Hutton). A report into the state of this housing in 1914 was scathing - toilets newly installed (none before), one to two families, were opposite each other on gable ends, offering no privacy or decency, and should be condemned even though new. There's a photo in his book on page 40 of Stewartfield, and others of Greendykes Road.

Their father Alexander Chattam at this time was a Retortman (from 1882 to 1891 at least) presumably either chucking shale in at the top or retrieving burnt shale at the bottom to go to the bing. At least he wasn't a miner.

The Museum of the Scottish Shale Oil Industry is now a must-see. It's industry which I hardly knew existed until recently. At one time, the area had the biggest oil refinery In The World no less. Fascinating stuff!

Offline dowdstree

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Re: BRASH in and near Abercorn
« Reply #21 on: Wednesday 26 July 17 17:38 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your information Fordyce.

The 1911 Census, which I have just looked at on SP,  shows that Sarah and Alexander had 11 children born alive of which 4 were still living. With the others you kindly gave me that means there are 2 still to trace. Well that will be for another day probably when I visit SP.

Poor wee George dying from hereditary syphilis.

I am going to send you a PM if you don't mind regarding Margaret and Alexander.

Thanks again.



Dorrie
Small, Dundee
Dickson, Dundee
Patrick, Scotland
Easson, Scotland
Small, Co. Antrim
Madden, Co. Westmeath
Dickson, Co. Down

Offline Southpaw58

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Re: BRASH in and near Abercorn
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 19 June 18 05:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Fordyce
This is my first post on Rootschat as I noticed that you have been searching for Brash's in Abercorn.  I am tracing my father's ancestors and have been led to the same location.  In one of your posts you said that you have found the location of Whitelawhouse.  Are you able to advise what source you used to find this?  I have had no luck despite looking at a lot of NLS and Genuki old maps.  Any guidance appreciated.  It's great to discover someone else searching for the same line.  Kind regards 

Offline Fordyce

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Re: BRASH in and near Abercorn
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 19 June 18 08:48 BST (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat!

Whitelawhouse certainly wasn't easy to find - but perseverence paid off: see here http://maps.nls.uk/view/74400289 which is part of William Forrest's map of Linlithgowshire, 1818.  Whitelawhouse is right on the shore by the pier east of Hopetoun House by Society.

I've noted it's also recorded in John Thomson's Atlas of Scotland, 1832, although I don't seem to have kept any link.

And I have also noted that "in 1724, Societie (sic) and Whitelawhouse were distinct co-existing places, but by the time of the OS, the location of Whitelawhouse was Society Park, presumably Whitelawhouse as a separate entity had been subsumed into the Hopetoun House policies". I must have got this info from the 1724 list of Mortcloth Rights in the Abercorn OPR, where Whitelawhouse is recorded at 'Why8layhouses' [sic], various earlier recordings being Whyllahouses and similar-ish variations.

What line are you researching? I have Whitelawhouse in the context of Mathew Brash & Margaret Potter who for a long time people have asserted are the parents of John Brash h/o Christian Greenlaw (my 5xgtgdparents). I have decided this isn't right, evidence indicating instead that John Brash is s/o George Brash & Margaret Meikle.

Offline Southpaw58

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Re: BRASH in and near Abercorn
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 19 June 18 09:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Fordyce
Wow - wasn't expecting such a quick reply - thank you!  I was looking in earlier maps so greatly appreciate that.  Your perseverence is impressive.  I traced my father's line back to John Brash and Mary Wallace - no official marriage but their first son is the direct line to us.  The details I have from graves and death records suggest his father is John Brash h/o Janet McKomy married in Abercorn in 1753 based on age at death.  That John was a soldier and I've concluded I will need to visit The National Archives to search for any additional information that might help me firm up my conclusion.  Based on the broader top down research I have done on the Brashes in Abercorn, my hypothesis is that John (h/o Janet McKomy) could be the son of John Brash and Janet Thornton and therefore traced further back via Alexander Brash/Katherine Findlason to the Walter Brash you mention as one of the two Walter/Patrick brothers.  There are so many John Brashes that my head is spinning!  I've seen some references to Mathew Brash but some of them seem based on conjecture rather than evidence and I'd rather see what the data says.  Have you traced John Brash and Christian Greenlaws son John?  So nice to connect with you.

Offline Fordyce

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Re: BRASH in and near Abercorn
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 20 June 18 09:15 BST (UK) »
Hi Southpaw58, just clicked through on a notification!

Ah! John Brash & Mary Wallace.... The couple that every descendant has got stuck on. I found it too difficult too, so this is stirring the embers with a stick hoping something will result! I take it the son you're referring to is John Brash recorded as born 26 Aug 1792 Abercorn (and he married Christine Clark).

Untangling all the John Brashes has been a complete headache for me too - in fact I wonder whether I've succeeded. There are other factors in the building of my Brash edifice, but one has been to distinguish between Brashes in Abercorn who were wrights and who were smiths. That is a very subtle distinction but it's had its uses. This occupational distinction comes into play later - read on.

No, I have nothing on John Brash s/o John Brash (smith in Newton) & Christian Greenlaw. What I have decided is that his sister Elizabeth Brash is my 4xgtgdmother Betty Brash, making a bit of a judgment on available evidence (there are other candidates locally but none in Abercorn, including ** below). My smith/wright distinction is no help because she married Thomas Shatton who was always a farmer - which in fact implies I should perhaps have made a third distinction: smith/wright/farmer.

Re your John Brash h/o Mary Wallace, I've long had five candidate parents with John Brash * & Janet McComie/McKomy being very much the prime candidates. I have noted John Brash & Agnes Smale (who marr Kirkliston 8 Nov 1717) as candidates to be his parents, such that he would have been born 5 Dec1718 Kirkliston.   * You say that this John Brash was a soldier. Any other indications of his or his son's occupation?

Re John Brash & Janet Thornton (or Thorntoun). This John Brash was a wright in Duntarvie then in Newton. Mortcloth Rights records show that he was s/o Alexander Brash in Lynnmiln and that proves him to be s/o Alexander Brash h/o Katherine Findlayson. Which is something definite for once. I have very little on the fate of John Brash & Janet Thornton and their six children.

But so far, mainly so confusing and inconclusive. It gets worse - or perhaps better.... A Mary Wallace, I believe your Mary Wallace, died 26 Jan 1797 in Crawstone, Abercorn, followed by Archibald Brash a child (presumably her child?) on 29 May 1797 in Crawston too.Then I have her widower John Brash remarry to Elisabeth/Betty Brown 6 Jan 1798 in Kirkliston (also recorded in Abercorn) - and this couple then turn up in the 1841 census in Milton, Dalmeny, John Brash being a farmer.

Meantime, they had had a daughter Bathia (later Elizabeth) Brash in 1802 at Crawstone (and possibly a second in 1804).

I then find the widow Betty Brash (née Brown or Broun) over at Easter Duntarvie in 1851, age 78 with a [step] gdchild Agnes Aiken (d/o John Aitken & Marion Finlayson where the latter is d/o William Finlayson & Agnes Brash one of the John Brash Mary Wallace family group). She died, as Betsy Brown, age 81 5 Dec 1852 in Duntarvie, probably Easter Duntarvie. I've been told that 'your' John Brash, who died 1 Apr 1850, died at Duntarvie, hence probably also Easter Duntarvie. Easter Duntarvie is where my Chatties had been tenant farmers from 1787 until 1821 when they moved to Totleywells.  I don't know whether this is anything more than a coincidence of place.

In 1841 John Brash was a farmer, but in 1895 a gtgdson claims he was a quarryman. But there's that farming distinction again. In fact, I have temporarily allocated your John Brash (farmer in 1841) with three siblings, those three seemingly all children of one 'John Brash farmer in Newton'. And this 'John Brash farmer in Newton' might be h/o Agnes Thomson (**) having married previously. By this time I'm going round in circles.

How much of this accords with your research?

Note that on at least two occasions, 'Bethia' or 'Bathia' has become 'Elizabeth'. I suppose that's not too exceptional.

A further thing to mention in passing is that Bethia/Elizabeth Brown Finlayson, Marion's sister, married George Chapman 26 Feb 1855 Dalmeny. And he is a gdson of Mungo Chapman & Agnes McKinley. And Mungo's sister Agnes Chapman married Thomas Shatton who is s/o Thomas Shatton & Betty Brash. Agnes Chapman & Thomas Shatton (whose surname became Chattie then Chatham or Chattam) are my 3xgtgdparents. The Brown name keeps popping up.


Offline Southpaw58

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Re: BRASH in and near Abercorn
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 21 June 18 04:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Fordyce
My initial response was rejected as too long so I have copied it to an attachment and highlighted my comments in Red rather than re-do the response.  I hope this works.
Regards