Searching for G.R. Johnson and Joseph Roberts in Wrexham area 1863/64

[wxmafc]

Hi, I am currently researching the history of the founding players of Wrexham Football Club- the third oldest professional football club in the world.
Their first recorded game was a 10-a-side game against The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade, which took place on The Racecourse Ground, (the oldest international football stadium in the world) on 22nd October 1864.

I have traced 8 of the 10 original Wrexham players and many of the 10 Prince of Wales Fire Brigade players, but cannot establish the true identity of a G. R. Johnson and a Joseph Roberts, who played for Wrexham Football and Athletic Club (as they were first known) in their first ever game. Any information would be very much appreciated.

Both of these people had an association, probably as clerks, for The Provincial Welsh Insurance Company and were likely volunteers in The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade and /or volunteers in the Wrexham Cavalry , Wrexham Militia, or Wrexham rifle volunteers. Both were team members of The Provincial Cricket team and Joseph Roberts was also a member of Wrexham Cricket Club.


G. R. Johnson appears in newspaper articles from The Wrexham Advertiser, playing for The Provincial Cricket Team (associated with the Provincial Welsh Insurance Company) in 1863/64, and at an Insurance Company article in 1864, but there is no more mention of his name after these dates.
Likely candidates are George Rumsey Johnson born in Bangor, who was recorded in a registry for Bangor/Beaumaris pauper hospital in 1865, where his occupation is recorded as insurance clerk, or a G.R. Johnson who later became a vicar in Tranmere/Birkenhead, but I can find no addresses for any G.R. Johnsons in Wrexham around 1864. Likewise, Joseph Roberts also appeared in newspaper articles associated with the above organisations, but I cannot tie any Joseph Roberts as being this particular person.
Any help would be appreciated, as my intention is to start a fund on Wrexham Football Club websites to purchase and install a plaque at The Racecourse stadium dedicated to the founding members of Wrexham Football Club.
I have also gathered a significant amount of data about the early years of the club and its founding members, which are posted on WST Wrexham Supporters Trust website http://wst.org.uk/www3/index.php/wrexham-afc/early-years and on Redpassion, a fans forum for Wrexham Football Club.
Much appreciated

[wilcoxon]

Likely candidates are George Rumsey Johnson born in Bangor

When was this one born, if we can find him with parents in census, then there may be some clues for later.
I can`t track him after 1837.

[wilcoxon]

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4579355/4579360/19/
29th October 1864
For reference.

[wilcoxon]

George Rumsey Johnstone  bc 1844  Llanbeblig  Caernarvonshire. 

1851 Llanbeblig Caernarvon
George Rumsey Johnston Age:8
Father's name:George Johnston
Mother's name:Mary Rumsey Johnston

1861 he is in England as George P Johnston b Caernarvonshire , insurance clerk.

Admitted to Mental Hospital
 Johnstone. George Rumsey
09/12/1865 aged 23 clerk in insurance office. Bangor & Beaumaris.
He  is still in the Asylum in 1871 / 1891 / 1901 census .

Would he have been able to play football ?

 PS, welcome to RC.

[wxmafc]

George Rumsey Johnstone  bc 1844  Llanbeblig  Caernarvonshire. 

1851 Llanbeblig Caernarvon
George Rumsey Johnston Age:8
Father's name:George Johnston
Mother's name:Mary Rumsey Johnston

1861 he is in England as George P Johnston b Caernarvonshire , insurance clerk.

Admitted to Mental Hospital
 Johnstone. George Rumsey
09/12/1865 aged 23 clerk in insurance office. Bangor & Beaumaris.
He  is still in the Asylum in 1871 / 1891 / 1901 census .

Would he have been able to play football ?

 PS, welcome to RC.

Thank you wilcoxon.

I had the following information on him.
George Rumsey Johnson christened Bangor 14th March 1843
Buried July August September 1923

birth:
1843
Bangor, Carnarvonshire
residence:
1851
Llanbeblig, Caernarvonshire, Wales
   father:
George Johnston
mother:
Mary Rumsey Johnston
other:
Margaret Morris, Francis Thomas Johnston,
Mary Elizabeth Johnston, Edward Clifford Johnston, Catherine Owen, Ellen Griffith

Name    George R Johnson
Event Type    Death
Registration Quarter    Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Year    1923
Registration District    Bangor
County    Caernarvonshire
Event Place    Bangor, Caernarvonshire, Wales
Volume    11B
Page    470
Line Number    114

Also had the date that he was admitted to hospital.

My feelings are that he may have moved to Wrexham around 1863 to work for The Provincial Welsh Insurance Company, as he is mentioned a number of times in The Wrexham Advertiser in relation to the Provincial cricket team, and is recorded as arranging matches and playing against Wrexham Cricket Club on The Racecourse ground, a few months before WCC founded Wrexham Football Club. The Insurance company was also vey closely linked with the new football club, as many of the founding players were insurance clerks. Additionally he is recorded as being a member of a volunteer in an associated comunity fire brigade, who played Wrexham Football Club, in their first ever game, and was also recorded at an event in Wrexham arranged by Provincial Insurance Company, so he had a period of around 18months in 1863/64 when his name is being mentioned regularly in the Wrexham Advertiser but then he just dissapears: hence, he was allready an insurance clerk when he was admitted to hospital by the authorities in Bangor in 1865. Could he have had a sudden breakdown as he wasnt picked up by the authorities earlier than 1865? Additionally Wrexham to Bangor is about 70 miles, although, the Provincial Welsh Insurance Company were known to have had meetings in Bangor, and may have had agents in the area.
Thanks for your input.

[wxmafc]

'1861 he is in England as George P Johnston b Caernarvonshire , insurance clerk.'

wilkoxon

thank you very much for this. Could you point me in the direction of where he is recorded as being in England in 1861, as that may be able to allow me to make a link back to Wrexham.

The fact that he had moved from Bangor into England makes me more confident that this may be the G.R.Johnson who played for Wrexham Football Club. Fingers crossed.

Much appreciated, again.

[keyboard86]

Hi the George P Johnston aged 18 is shown as born Carnavon ( original) living in St Pancras and from what I can read on original he was employed as a Clerk Tax & Income Office?
Census Ref RG09/120/76/36
Keyboard86

[wilcoxon]

George Johnson married Mary Rumsey Williams 1842 Carnarvon
On the 9th inst., at Llanbeblig church, by the Rev. Thorns Thomas, Vicar, George Johnston, Esq., of Bangor, to Miss Mary Rumsey Williams, only daughter of t. R. Williams, Esq., of this town, and grand-daughter of the late H. R. Williams, Esq., of Penrhos.

George Rumsey Johnson christened Bangor 14th March 1843

1851 Bowling Green. Llanbeblig
George Johnston  33 no occupation b Brighton Sussex.
 Mary Rumsey Johnston wife  29 b Llanbeblig
 George Rumsey Johnston  8 b Bangor
 Edward Clifford Johnston  6 b Bangor
 Mary Elizabeth Johnston  4  b Llanbeblig
 Francis Thomas Johnston  3 b Llanbebig
Plus 3 servants.

1861 25 Leighton Grove St Pancras Middlesex
 Phoebe Higgins  57 house proprietress b Middlesex
 Henry W Higgins son  19 clerk b “
 Ann Sulman boarder  45 shareholder b Gloucestershire
 John Minsden  boarder 30  traveller commercial b Scotland.
George P Johnston boarder,18  clerk tax office  b Caernarvonshire

Admitted to Mental Hospital Denbigh
 Johnstone. George Rumsey
09/12/1865 aged 23 clerk in insurance office. transferred from  Bangor & Beaumaris. ( workhouse?)
He  is still in the Asylum till 1901.

1871 North Wales Counties Lunatic Asylum   Denbigh
George Rumsey Johnston patient 27 clerk in insurance office (no birth place ) lunatic.

1881 North Wales Lunatic Asylum.
G.R.J. patient (status unknown)  insurance clerk 52 born unknown. Lunatic.
Details in 1881 are limited to initials and age is wrong  but his occupation shows it is him.

1891 North Wales Counties Lunatic Asylum   Denbigh
George Rumsey Johnstone  Patient / pauper. clerk in insurance office  47 b Bangor. Lunatic.   Speaks English

1901 Glan Y Wern Branch Lunatic Asylum .  Llandyrnog. Denbigh
George Rumsey Johnstone   patient 56  general labourer  b Llanbeblig, Caernarvonshire, Speaks English.

Not found after 1901.

**************************************************************

Parents
George Johnson married Mary Rumsey Williams 1842 Carnarvon
On the 9th inst., at Llanbeblig church, by the Rev. Thorns Thomas, Vicar, George Johnston, Esq., of Bangor, to Miss Mary Rumsey Williams, only daughter of t. R. Williams, Esq., of this town, and grand-daughter of the late H. R. Williams, Esq., of Penrhos.

1851 Bowling Green. Llanbeblig
George Johnston  33 no occupation b Brighton Sussex.
 Mary Rumsey Johnston wife  29 b Llanbeblig
 George Rumsey Johnston  8 b Bangor
 Edward Clifford Johnston  6 b Bangor
 Mary Elizabeth Johnston  4  b Llanbeblig
 Francis Thomas Johnston  3 b Llanbebig
Plus 3 servants.

1861 ? possibly in Middlesex.

1871 Llandysilio. Menai Bridge , Beaumaris. plus children
George Johnston 54 attorney of law.  b Brighton, Sussex, England
Mary R Johnston b  Llanbeblig

1881 Llanbenlig. plus children
 Mary Rumsey Johnston  widow 54 British Pearl Dealer (Jewellery) b Carnarvon,

1891 Llanbeblig. plus children
Mary Rumsey Johnston 65 living on own means.
Caernarvon, Caernarvonshire, Wales
 She has a daughter with her , this is her baptisim. This is quite a coincidence that GR was there in 1861.

Annie Florence Johnston Baptism Date:26 Aug 1857 Father's name:George Johnston
Mother's name:Mary Rumsey Johnston
Parish or Poor Law Union:St Pancras  Borough:Camden

Mary Rumsey Johnson of Maronedd  Carnarvon died 23 Jan 1896. Probate to Mary Elizabeth Johnston spinster.

Obviously a well connected family. Would poor George Rumsey have been "hidden" in the mental hospital. It was not unknown for wealthy families to keep family members a secret.

There may be some clues in the Asylum records.

[wxmafc]

sadly, the family may well have been ashamed of him and he was sent away to London, where he became a clerk, briefly?
 There is then a G.R. Johnston who appears in a list of insurance clerks at the opening of a gymnasium for The Provincial Welsh insurance Company in Wrexham in February 1863. Was he trying to return close to home, or even the family pulled a few strings?

Throughout 1863 and 1864 he then appears playing for The Provincial Insuarance Office Cricket team, before playing for Wrexham Football Club on 22nd October 1864



2nd May 1863- the name ‘johnson’ first appears playing for Provincial Cricket team. Many of the provincial team will later play for Wrexham Football Club.
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4587773/4587779/24/G.R.%20Johnson%20AND%20Wrexham%20AND%20provincial


11th July 1863 – the name ‘Johnson’ (no initials) first appears, playing for Wrexham Cricket Club. Many of the team would later play for Wrexham Football Club

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4587854/4587858/15/G.R.%20Johnson%20AND%20Wrexham%20AND%20provincial

October 1863 Provincial Insurance Office Clerks including ‘Johnson’ have a half term holiday and play cricket on The Racecourse against Wrexham Cricket Club.
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4587962/4587970/41/G.R.%20Johnson%20AND%20Wrexham%20AND%20provincial

25th June 1864 G.R. Johnson plays for Provincial Cricket team against Wrexham Cricket Club and on 2nd July played for Wrexham CC against Wynnstay. Many of the Provincial and Wrexham Cricket teams will later play for Wrexham Football Club.

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4579209/4579214/28/G.R.%20Johnson%20AND%20Wrexham%20AND%20provincial

July 1864- G.R. Johnston plays for Provincial Cricket team against a scratch 11. Many of both teams will later play for Wrexham Football Club.

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4587962/4587970/41/G.R.%20Johnson%20AND%20Wrexham%20AND%20provincial

August 1864 (Johnson) plays for Provincial against Wynnstay and then G. R. Johnson arranges two games of cricket for Provincial Insurance Company against Wrexham Cricket Club before playing for Wrexham Football and Athletic Club against The Prince of Wales Fire Brigade on 22nd October 1864.
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4579355/4579360/19/


http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4579255/4579260/17/G.R.%20Johnson%20AND%20Wrexham%20AND%20provincial


He then seems to dissapear from Wrexham and then re-appears in Bangor/Beaumaris, possibly tries to return home, but is either admitted, or commited to Denbigh lunatic assylum.

Could this all be the same person?

Very sad indeed.