Lipman Bayer

[lbzh12]

Hi, I am doing some research on a relative of mine named Lipman Bayer. He was born in Seduva, Lithuania in 1867 and emigrated to South Africa and he lived in Taung South Africa. He was married to Ada Kaplan Bayer. I have looked on all genealogy websites I could find and only found 3 documents relating to him, two of which were on FamilySearch. One had to do with the death of his wife Ada and their will and the mention of their children and the other was a marriage document when he remarried Masche Kaplan following Ada's death. Both of those were in South Africa. The final one was a record of his wife Ada on a tax record (not him). She has the name Eyda Bauer on the ALD Lithuania site. Can anybody find anything else about him either in Lithuania or South Africa? He died in Taung, South Africa on 12/31/1946.

[Gillian Mauchan]

I presume you have found these two references on NAAIRS?

MOK   1/1/1122   5755   BAYER, LIPMAN. ESTATE PAPERS.   1947   1947

LDE   2431   318/85   TRADING SITE IN MANYEDING NATIVE RESERVE DIVISION KURUMAN. OWNER:   1943   1944

[lbzh12]

Thank you for your reply.
Early on I did find those 2 records as shown below:

Record 1:
DEPOT     SAB                                                                   
SOURCE    LDE                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 2431                                                                 
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 318/85                                                               
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          TRADING SITE IN MANYEDING NATIVE RESERVE DIVISION KURUMAN. OWNER:     
           LIPMAN BAYER.                                                       
STARTING  1943                                                                 
ENDING    1944     


Record 2:
DEPOT     KAB                                                                   
SOURCE    MOK                                                                   
TYPE      LEER                                                                 
VOLUME_NO 1/1/1122                                                             
SYSTEM    01                                                                   
REFERENCE 5755                                                                 
PART      1                                                                     
DESCRIPTION          BAYER, LIPMAN. ESTATE PAPERS.                                         
STARTING  19470000                                                             
ENDING    19470000

Based on seeing above the depots KAB and SAB, I looked for contact information and saw this:

KAB
Cape Town Archives Repository
Postal address: Private Bag X9025, CAPE TOWN 8000
Street address: 72 Roeland Street, CAPE TOWN
Tel: (021) 466 8100. Fax: (021) 465 2960.
Email: Archives@pgwc.gov.za   (for General Correspondence)
Records@pgwc.gov.za    (for Records Management enquiries)
Readroom@pgwc.gov.za  (Reading Room Enquiries) 
Outreach@pgwc.gov.za   (Outreach Activities)

SAB:
National Archives Repository (Public Records of Central Government since 1910)
Postal address: Private Bag X236, PRETORIA 0001
Street address: 24 Hamilton Street, Arcadia, PRETORIA.
Tel: (012) 441 3200. Fax: (012) 323 5287.
Email: enquiries@dac.gov.za

Now based on the above I emailed Archives@pgwc.gov.za a couple of weeks ago
and I haven't heard anything at all.

Is it required to go down to the Depot in question and gather the information or can it be done
through email? Is there a charge?

I am outside the country and not familiar with the proper protocol to obtain these documents, but
these do look interesting and I want to obtain them.

Thank you.....

[JustinL]

I would speculate with reasonable certainty that his original surname was BER, the Yiddish word for bear and pronounced in a similar way. The surname was common in Seduva, as you will find in the ALD database, and you can imagine how it became BAYER in South Africa.

Lipman/Libman/Lifman was a common enough Yiddish given name, however not so in the BER family (or families) of Seduva.

The candletax-payer list of 1846 recorded an Abram (son of Lipman) BER as well-to-do / upper class
The property owners list of 1856 recorded him as the owner of a house worth 260 rubles.
In the revision list of 1858, he and his large family (wife, 2 sons & 4 daughters) went under the surname BERMAN.

This Abram was born in about 1816, so would have been 50-ish when Lipman was born. Golde, his wife in 1858, was 41. She could easily have died shortly afterwards, compelling Abram to re-marry. Second marriages in Jewish communities were mostly to younger women. Abram could easily have fathered a further 3 or 4 children by 1867 and named a son Lipman, after his own father.

This is all speculation, but represents a very realistic scenario.

See my subsequent post below.

Justin

[Gillian Mauchan]

Hi
Unfortunatelly you will need to get them directly from the Cape Archives as the documents included in the Familysearch.org collection cease at 1937 for Kimberley

If you go to this page http://www.national.archives.gov.za/aboutnasa.html you should find an email address to contact the Cape Archives. They charge R1/page copied

Regards

[lbzh12]

Thanks for the Lithuania information. I will take a closer look at Ber and other such names.

As far as the 1R/Page copied, I think that is for when you go there onsite. I think I will need to hire a researcher to go there in my place as I am out of the country. Is that accurate?


Thank you both for your replies.....

[JustinL]

It looks like my speculation was somewhat off target.

But, I think I have now found the right Bayer/Bauer family!!!

According to the cemetery database here (http://www.jewishroots.uct.ac.za/Cemeteries.aspx) Lipman's full Hebrew name was Lipman ben Tsvi-Aharon meaning that his father was called Tsvi-Aharon. That is a double Hebrew name.

The same database records the death and burial of Samuel John Bayer (1871-1919). His Hebrew name was Shmuel-Yona ben Tsvi-Aharon. Working on the basis that that must be more than pure coincidence, I went back to familysearch.org and found his probate records, which state that he was born in 'Gerenkisik, Russia'.

Returning to the ALD database, I established that Gerenkisik was actually referring to Grinkiskis, which is a mere 15 miles SSW of Seduva. If you search for the surname BAUER in that town, you will find the family of Hirsh-Orel BAUER recorded in the Revision List of 1874. Amongst his sons are Lipe, aged 5 (your Lipman) and Shmuel-Iovno, aged 3 (i.e. Samuel John).

An elder brother Simon Benjamin Bayer died in Kimberley in 1946 aged 83. His Hebrew name was recorded as Bentsion ben Tsvi Hirsh. This man had a son Morris Philip Bayer who died in 1935. The burial record identifies him as Moshe-Feiva ben Bentsion-Yitschak. His probate record on familysearch.org tells us that he had been born in Seduva. Going back to the Bauer family in Grinkiskis, you will see that Hirsh-Orel also had a son recorded as Itsko-Bentsel, i.e. Bentsion-Yitschak.

I should also mention that Orel was a Yiddish nickname for the Hebrew name Aharon and that Russian does not have a letter 'h'. A Yiddish 'h' became a 'g' in Russian. Hence you find Girsh Orel, rather than Hirsh Orel.

Justin

[lbzh12]

Excellent information!!!!
Thanks for putting me on the right track.
Cheers.......

[Gillian Mauchan]

Hi Try the email address for western cape archives I live in Australia and have had success using that
Your main issue is how to transfer such a small amount of money to the archives - I usually get my Niece to go in and pay

Regards