Catching syphilis

[iolaus]

Is there any way to calculate roughly when someone would have caught syphilis?

My gr, gr grandfather was born in 1861
married in 1883
first child born 1885 (my greatgrandmother lived till she was 56)
second child born and died 1886
third child born and died 1887
fouth child born and died 1888
fifth child born 1889 (lived till his 70s)
sixth child born and died 1891
seventh child born 1892 (lived till his 80s)
eighth child born and died 1893
ninth child born 1894 died 1895 (8 months)
tenth child born and died 1896
eleventh child born 1897 (mother died in childbirth he then died 13 months later)

in 1909 he was admitted to a lunatic asylum with GPI (tertiary syphilis)
he died 1911 of the same

I know I have heard there tends to be a pattern with children dying - but can't find it - and wondered if it could be worked out from the pattern of his childrens deaths (I'm assuming he passed it on to his wife who passed it to the children)

[Dyingout]

GPI means General Paralysis of the Insane
If he died in 1911 I would have thought he caught it after the death of his wife as untreated it's a quick death
This is worth reading
goo.gl/cGBYSc

Also Wiki gives a very good timeline
goo.gl/sBFq3Q

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
The pattern is usually first children unaffected,next children die young,then stillbirths,then children born but dying young and then children who live but are sick before children who are ok.
Syphilis does have periods were the symptoms disappear and it looks like the suffer has recovered then he  or she relapses.

[LizzieW]

My g.g.uncle died of General paralysis of the Insane for 1 year and also pneumonia for 18 days, on 22 Aug 1902.  He was married 3 times, he had one child with his first wife who died of typhus when that child was about 10 months old.  He re-married 10 years later and had 2 more children, that wife died 2 years after the birth of the youngest from delerium tremens and cardiac failure.  Five years later he married again and had 3 more children, the youngest was born the year before my g.g.uncle died.  I've never bothered to get the birth certificate so I don't know that child's exact date of birth.  I do know the 3rd wife was 47 when her husband died and she lived until 1941, dying when she was 86.  None of her 3 children, nor the previous children of my g.g.uncle died and from the dates of death of his first two wives no reason to suspect there were any stillborn children. 

I assume my g.g.uncle either picked up syphilis during the many years between his various wives and it lay dormant or else he didn't get it until after the birth of his last child.  Either way seems a bit odd.

[janan]

General Paralysis of the Insane can occur up to 25 years after being infected, so it is possible that the first child who died in 1886 could have had congenital syphilis. Death certificates should of course confirm or otherwise. Could prove expensive though.

Jan

[Annie65115]

GPI means General Paralysis of the Insane
If he died in 1911 I would have thought he caught it after the death of his wife as untreated it's a quick death
This is worth reading
goo.gl/cGBYSc

Also Wiki gives a very good timeline
goo.gl/sBFq3Q

Sorry but this is incorrect.

Syphilis has 3 active stages, plus a latent stage during which time the infection is dormant. The primary stage is the chancre -- the painless ulcer which may go unnoticed if it's not in an area that sees the light of day much. That comes up anything up to 3 months after contact, and is infectious.

The secondary phase is very infectious; it's when the bacterium spreads around the body I foret how quickly that phase can begin but it's usually a few weeks/months after the primary chancre heals. I've seen people with active secondary syphilis a year after their first contact.

The bacterium then lies dormant unless and until tertiary syphilis can develop. This affects the heart or the central nervous system (or if you're particularly unlucky, both!) In the central nervous system, it can cause tabes dorsalis, which destroys the nerves to the feet producing numbness and a classical gait; and it can cause GPI, which was not a paralysis at all -- think of it more like a type of advanced dementia. Tertiary syphilis can rear its head anything up to 30 years after the primary infection.

So OP, I think that it's quite likely that he picked up the infection some time around the time that he married (and remember, he could have caught it from your gt-grannie rather than vice versa).

The list of child deaths is heartbreaking and even more so when you remember that it wasn't that uncommon, but remember that children died of many more things than congenital syphilis     and in fact it's not unusual at all for children to survive congenital syphilis and live into adulthood (they cannot pass the infection on though).

[Annie65115]

BTW, according to the divorce papers, my gt-grandmother almost certainly caught syphilis from her erring husband whilst she was pregnant. However, my grannie had no signs of congenital syphilis and in fact lived very healthily until well into her 90s.

So syphilis can kill unborn or newly born babies - but it often doesn't.

[suey]

Interesting subject. 
My husband has two brothers in his tree, both married, neither had children.  I had often wondered why?  Both had been in the army, both had syphillis, one was discharged because of it.  I have to assume that this was the reason for no children and hence the end of that family line.

[Raybistre]

Hi,
I have some questions.
I have a female born in 3rd Qtr of 1866 who married in October 1893. This female died age 30 in February 1897. Death certificate from the Lunatic Asylum, Wells, gives cause of death as General Paralysis of the Insane more than 2 years.
Is this definitely tertiary syphilis?
If so, would the infection have been likely caught prior to her marriage in 1893?

Thank you in advance for any information