GRO V Parish Register

[jonw65]

It says, regarding the copy certificate from the GRO
"The above entry has been completed by one person (the Registrar)"

Surely it wasn't completed by a registrar? Quarterly returns of marriages were compiled by each parish church and sent to the GRO via the local Superintendent Registrar. As far as I know, this is still the case.
It's possible that the minister wrote out the copies himself.
John

[Guy Etchells]

It says, regarding the copy certificate from the GRO
"The above entry has been completed by one person (the Registrar)"

Surely it wasn't completed by a registrar? Quarterly returns of marriages were compiled by each parish church and sent to the GRO via the local Superintendent Registrar. As far as I know, this is still the case.
It's possible that the minister wrote out the copies himself.
John

Yes, that's correct, I was not concentrating when I wrote that and simply loocked at a green certificate and though civil marriage, but of course it was a church wedding.
I will have to amend that to include Rector, Vicar, or Curate etc.

Cheers
Guy

[Geoff-E]

I had the impression that C of E vicars were ex officio registrars of marriages.

Other denominations required the attendance by an "official" registrar as their ministers had no status as registrars.

[Andrew Tarr]

I believe this is a 'short certificate', for my father.  Apologies for the poor contrast, the form is printed in red and the paper has yellowed considerably.  It's for a birth, not a baptism.

[Guy Etchells]

Guy was referring to BIRTH certificates, not marriages, birth are not registered in church, only baptisms, and there is no such thing as short marriage certificate.

Please can we stop spreading the myth that births were not registered in church baptism registers they were.
Not only were they registered but there was a hefty fine for not registering the birth. Fines were imposed on the cleric and on the parents.

See- http://www.rootschat.com/links/01gyx/

The first order to register births and deaths came in 1643/4-

On 03 January 1643/4 an ordinance was passed that-
"... and it is further ordained, by the authority aforesaid, that there shall be provided, at the charge of every parish or chappelry in this realm of England and dominion of Wales a fair register-book of velim be kept by the minister and other officers of the church; and that the names of all children baptized, and of their parents, and the time of their birth and baptizing, shall be written and set down by the ministers therein ; and also the names of all persons married there and the time of their marriage ; and also the names of all persons buried in that parish, and the time of their death and burial ; and that said book shall be showed, by such as keep the same, to all persons reasonably desiring to search for the birth, baptizing, marriage, or burial of any person therein registered, and to take a copy or procure a certificate thereof."

This was later augmented by an Act in 1695 (7th & 8th William III., cap.35)
“V. ... that from and after the four and twentieth Day of June, which shall be in the Year one thousand six hundred ninety and six, the Parents of every Child, which shall at any Time be born after the said Day and Year, and during the Continuance of the said Acts, or one of them, shall within five Days after such Birth give Notice to the respective Rector, Vicar, Curate, or Clerk of the Parish or Place where such Child was born, of the Day of the Birth of every such Child: And in case any Parent shall neglect to give such Notice as aforesaid, he or she shall forfeit the Sum of forty Shillings, one Moiety thereof to the king’s Majesty and the other Moiety to the informer; the which said Rector, Vicar, Curate, or Clerk of the Parish, or their Substitutes,  are hereby required, during the Continuance of the said Act, to take an exact and true Account, and keep a distinct Register of all and every Person or Persons so born in his or their respective Parishes or Precincts, and not christened ; for doing which the Parents of such Child, or one of them, shall pay to every such Parson, Rector, Vicar, Curate, or Clerk of the Parish, the Sum of Six Pence ; and if any such Rector, Vicar, Curate, Parson, or Minister, shall refuse or neglect to keep a true Register thereof, as before is directed, such Parson or other Minister, so offending shall forfeit the Sum of forty shillings,...”
Between 1695 and the present day there were various other Acts requiring that births & deaths be registered, including 1783 & 1812.

For examples of early certificates take a look at the various pages at
http://anguline.co.uk/cert/certificates.htm

Cheers
Guy

[Melbell]

You can't have 'original certificates' - of birth, death or marriage: they are all copies of the entry in the register.  Each certificate is equal to any other of the same entry; repeat, they are all copies. (Short birth certificates are made from the information in the register, according to exact regulations).

Melbell

[StevieSteve]

I'm not sure how exact we're being about the word certificate here so may be missing  the point but,  hey-ho...

Earlier this year, I registered at my doctor's with my birth certificate.  If I'd presented them with one I'd ordered  from  the  GRO , I expect and hope that they'd have  rejected  it.

So not all certs are equal, though copied  from the same register.

[KGarrad]

I'm not sure how exact we're being about the word certificate here so may be missing  the point but,  hey-ho...

Earlier this year, I registered at my doctor's with my birth certificate.  If I'd presented them with one I'd ordered  from  the  GRO , I expect and hope that they'd have  rejected  it.

So not all certs are equal, though copied  from the same register.

Why would they have rejected it? I don't understand?

[Guy Etchells]

You can't have 'original certificates' - of birth, death or marriage: they are all copies of the entry in the register.  Each certificate is equal to any other of the same entry; repeat, they are all copies. (Short birth certificates are made from the information in the register, according to exact regulations).

Melbell

You make a couple of points here yet still miss my point.

First all certificates are, as you say, copies of entries in the relevant register.
However each certificate is not equal to any other of the same entry.
Some certificates were provided for specific purposes and will not be accepted by some authorities.
For example if one wishes to apply for to apply for ones first passport a full certificate must be sent, a short certificate is not accepted.

Next to my point an entry in a register is just that an entry in a register it is not a certificate.
The GRO designate short certificates as a certificate however they designate what we used to call long certificates (now since the format changed full certificates) as certified copies of an entry...

That being the case the free short certificate one is entitled to when registering a birth is the original birth certificate.

The reason for this is only short certificates are designated a certificate and secondly being the first certified copy of the relevant entry register it is the original certificate because no other has yet been provided, a second short certificate would not be an original certificate.

If one purchases a full certificate on registering the birth that is not an original certificate as the GRO designation certificate only applies to the short form.

Cheers
Guy