Author Topic: Thomas Patrick McGuinness and Catherine/Katherine Smyth  (Read 362 times)

Offline brian.g

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Thomas Patrick McGuinness and Catherine/Katherine Smyth
« on: Saturday 31 December 16 09:52 GMT (UK) »
I am seeking help on my Great Grandfather and Grandmother

Thomas Patrick McGuinness b. est 1858 in Ireland (county unknown) and d. 26 Sep 1893 in Belfast.
Catherine/Katherine Smyth.  b. est. 1860 in Manchester? and d. 27 Sept 1936 in Sydney Aust.

Thomas' Father as listed on his marriage Certificate was John McGuinness - Labourer who had died before his marriage in 1885.  I have no details of his mother.

I have marriage, and death certificates from GRONI, as well as birth certificates for his 5 children.

Before his marriage he is listed as living at 8 Marys St Belfast.  Based on the PRONI Street directories for Belfast he was not listed at Mary St in 1884 (but could have been a boarder), but there is also a Marys Place shown but no names shown for the houses.  After the Marriage he was living at 103 Leeson St and is in the 1887 directory.

The only John M'Guinness in the 1884 Directory is a clothes dealer which does not match his father. And no Johns or Thomas' in the 1880 directories which suggests they were not in Antrim before 1885.

I have scourered the available records but cannot find anything that provides a definite match for him, so any suggestions on where to search would be appreciated.

The family was Catholic so there may also be church records if I can find the correct names/dates.

His wife Catherine was born, according to death records, in Manchester, but it is believed her father at least was Irish.  While I have reasonable records for her (except birth), I am seeking birth/death records for her parents, especially her father who also died before the marriage.  He is listed as a shoemaker.

She lived prior to the marriage at 162 Leeson St, which was her brothers house, but not sure when they arrived in Belfast, and cannot be located in earlier directories.

Again any suggestions for searches would be much appreciated.
Gilbert         Ireland Louth
McGuinness, Ireland, Belfast
Smyth,        Ireland Belfast/Armagh
Nix,             England Hertfordshire/Cambridgeshire
Barber,         England Middlesex Shorditch
Firmin,         England Essex

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Offline aghadowey

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Re: Thomas Patrick McGuinness and Catherine/Katherine Smyth
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 31 December 16 11:03 GMT (UK) »
Not everyone is listed in the directories under their name- many more can be found under the address listings but as you've found not all houses were listed and only head of household would have been included.
The Valuation Revision Books cover from the printed version of Griffith's Valuation (mid 1800s) until c1930 so can be useful once you have found a family at a particular address.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/valuation-revision-books

The 1885 marriage took place in St. Peter's R.C. Church so that would be the place to start searching for church records-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10865/5967642.pdf

Unfortunately the records here don't cover the period of the marriage-
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0429
this page shows where you should get the marriage- names of both sets of parents may be listed-
https://www.johngrenham.com/records/rc_church.php?churchid=0429&parish=St.%20Peter%27s,%20Belfast%20city
Please do NOT ask for lookups by Personal Message.

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Offline robyn viset

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Re: Thomas Patrick McGuinness and Catherine/Katherine Smyth
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 23 December 17 09:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi l am the great grand daughter of Thomas  Patrick McGuinness. And grand daughter of Joseph  Patrick  McGuinness.  Kate ( Catherine ) had 3 living children Joseph, Liam & Mary and ? 2 dead. I ve been  looking fo the Gilbert tree thru Mary.

Offline brian.g

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Re: Thomas Patrick McGuinness and Catherine/Katherine Smyth
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 23 December 17 10:04 GMT (UK) »
Robyn,

we have messaged before.  I am Mary's Grandson, Brian.  If you look at my tree, I have managed to find out a bit more about the Smyth side but not very much.  However, I have not been able to trace Catherine's Uncles family.  Would be interesting to find some living relatives on that side to see what more can be found out.

If you want I have copies of the birth records for all the McGuinness children, as well as the marriage record for Thomas and Kate, and Thomas' Death record
Gilbert         Ireland Louth
McGuinness, Ireland, Belfast
Smyth,        Ireland Belfast/Armagh
Nix,             England Hertfordshire/Cambridgeshire
Barber,         England Middlesex Shorditch
Firmin,         England Essex

Offline robyn viset

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Re: Thomas Patrick McGuinness and Catherine/Katherine Smyth
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 23 December 17 10:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi Brian.
I have the marriage  certificate for Thomas & Kate. And the birth / marriage certificates of Joseph Patrick. I didn't  know about  your  grandmother Brian till recently. I have her death certificate now. Very sad story.
So if l can help you l wiill be happy to do so.  I believe  Patrick Smyth of Dublin was Kate s uncle. After her father William died  in 1864, she was cared for by her uncle. And her mother  Rose Smyth remarried.  But have no info on her new name.

I would like the records on Thomas Patrick & his parentage.  l believe he was a viloinist at the Belfast opera house.