Author Topic: Trying to find children of Robert Phippard and Elizabeth nee Derham  (Read 187 times)

Offline LizzieL

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,586
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Trying to find children of Robert Phippard and Elizabeth nee Derham
« on: Thursday 05 January 17 17:05 GMT (UK) »
Today I discovered the will of my 4 x great grandfather's brother George Derham on Ancestry. It confirmed some relationships that I had not been 100% sure of and was quite clear as to which siblings were deceased and which still alive in 1833 when the will was written and where they were living at the time. But up popped two siblings who I didn't know anything about. I have since found the oldest brother Edmund - baptism not where expected so may give lead on where their mother was from.
But I have some problems with a sister Elizabeth Derham. She is the widow of Robert Phippard of Morden and has several children who share a sum of money -  but only Jonathan is named, because he is excluded. His share going to his unnamed illegitimate son now about 12 and said to be born in Morden. 
I have found a marriage at Holdenhurst for Robert Phippard and Betty Derham on 19 Nov 1778.  I have found baptisms for 6 children between 1786 and 1797 in Morden but no Jonathan. They didn't have any children in Holdenhurst either. In the gap between marriage and first known child - 8 years - they could have fitted 3 or 4 in, but can't find them anywhere.

I can't find Elizabeth Derham's baptism either. The Derhams moved from Morden to Christchurch area between 1765 and 1770 going by baptisms of children, so it could be in either place. Parents would be John and Mary. It would be earlier than 1770, because George describes his other sister Frances as his younger sister and she was baptised in 1770.

Can anyone locate these people please?
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline paco

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,086
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find children of Robert Phippard and Elizabeth nee Derham
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 07 January 17 16:52 GMT (UK) »
On FreeREG if you type in Derham followed by soundtex it comes up with loads of Dirham/Derham/Durham variations that may be of help. Jonathan would have been Jonathan Phippard and so I looked for a baseborn son in Morden for someone around the right age. The only possible/maybe I could come up with was a boy born to an Ann Lockyer who she called Jonathan-perhaps after his father-born in 1818 Morden.
regards.
Essex/Dorset/Berks

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline LizzieL

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,586
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find children of Robert Phippard and Elizabeth nee Derham
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 08 January 17 16:14 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, I did try that and also through Morden registers on Ancestry. As far as Elizabeth Derham's baptism, the only close one I can come up with is d/o of Joseph and Mary Derham in Nov 1761. The problem is there isn't a Joseph / Mary couple baptising children in Morden at that time, but there is a Joseph / Elizabeth couple who married 9 months before the baptism.
So I think there's an error somewhere - either parents should John and Mary or Joseph and Elizabeth.
But John and Mary baptised a son James in Feb 1761, so a but tight to get a second one in, unless they were bit tardy with James's baptism.

Ann Lockyer's son does seem to be the only likely illegitimate boy in the right time frame, assuming he was born / baptised in Morden, not just resident there when uncle George made his will.
Something has been written in the occupation column then been rubbed out partially.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline ciderdrinker

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,617
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Trying to find children of Robert Phippard and Elizabeth nee Derham
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 13:28 GMT (UK) »
Hello
There's a Betty Derham d of John and Mary of Keary born 19.4.1755 and bapt 4th June at Wareham Independent chapel.
Could that be her?
There's a son George 27.3.1746 and bapt 4.4.1746 but you didn't say what date your George was born.
There's a burial Elizabeth Phippard at Morden 3.8.1820 age 67 years so born 1753

Ciderdrinker

Offline rjknott

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,976
    • View Profile
    • 64 Regency Ancestors
Re: Trying to find children of Robert Phippard and Elizabeth nee Derham
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 11 January 17 18:53 GMT (UK) »
Ann Lockyer's son does seem to be the only likely illegitimate boy in the right time frame, assuming he was born / baptised in Morden, not just resident there when uncle George made his will.
Something has been written in the occupation column then been rubbed out partially.

The crossed out word is 'labourer' which doesn't really help.

A Jonathan Lockyer married in 1845 claiming on the certificate that his father was another Jonathan Lockyer, but that may refer to Jonathan Phippard. He had a daughter called Ann(e) which adds to the evidence that this was Ann's son. She was 20 when she married in 1865.

His mother Ann may be the Ann Lockyer who married Robert Brown in Corfe Castle in 1821, appearing on the 1841 census (age 35-39) but dying in 1849 aged 50.

Richard
All the families I am researching are listed on the main page here:
www.64regencyancestors.com

Census: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk