Author Topic: Anyone know of Sweeney or Purtill families (RC) near Cahir 1835-1855 ?  (Read 1771 times)

Offline kob3203

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Anyone know of Sweeney or Purtill families (RC) near Cahir 1835-1855 ?
« on: Sunday 08 January 17 12:41 GMT (UK) »
We're trying to trace the births of a Johanna Sweeney and Edmond Purtill (both  c.1840-1850) who were married 18 Jan 1862 at St Mary’s church, Cahir. I've searched through the NLI's online RC parish records for Cahir RC parish baptisms for this period (most are fairly legible) and Sweeneys seem to be very rare, and Purtill's absent. I'm wondering if the families with these surnames may be from one of the adjacent parishes ? I started looking through the NLI records and realized there's going to be alot of eyestrain involved.

So I was simply wondering if anybody already knows of any Sweeney/Purtill families in the Ballylooby, Ardfinnan, Clonmel (St Marys), New Inn, or Bansha RC parishes around this time to helpmedecide which adjacent parish is the most likely ?
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Anyone know of Sweeney or Purtill families (RC) near Cahir 1835-1855 ?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 08 January 17 12:59 GMT (UK) »
If they married in 1862 then 1850s seems a bit late for baptisms  :-\

Have you found deaths/census records to work out approximate ages?

There was an Edmond Purtill baptised 20 Apr.1841 in Fethard Parish, Tipperary but of course it's possible the baptism records for the period you need are not online or simply don't survive.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline kob3203

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Re: Anyone know of Sweeney or Purtill families (RC) near Cahir 1835-1855 ?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 08 January 17 14:23 GMT (UK) »
Indeed it does.

But in the 1901 census Johanna's 50, and apparently* at her death in 1906 she's 57.
Edmond's also 50 in the 1901 census but 80(!) in the 1911 census.
I'm working on the theory that they were about the same age, but 60 in 1901 (not 50)

(I Found the 20 April 1841 Fethard baptism you mentioned here http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632712#page/67/mode/1up halfway down the right hand page - "Edmond of Thomas Purtill + Ellen Nanly (?)" - the year headings for that microfilm are 4 years out of sync and I've just reported that)


*I haven'tseen the death record and don't know where it came from.
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

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Re: Anyone know of Sweeney or Purtill families (RC) near Cahir 1835-1855 ?
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 08 January 17 14:40 GMT (UK) »
There's a May 1850 Cahir Parish baptism of a Johanna to Lawrence Sweeney and B.Kerry (last entry for May here http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632137#page/54/mode/1up which fits Johanna's 1901 census age and the death age.

But it means that her 18 Jan 1862 marriage (second on left side here http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632136#page/90/mode/1up )would have only been 11 years 8 months after her baptism,and her first child was born soon after.

And none of her sons are called Lawrence.

So even though this would fit the "marriage in the bride's parish" tradition and the ages in the 1901 census and death record, I think marriage before age 12 and the lack of any children called Lawrence count against it...
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)



Offline aghadowey

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Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline kob3203

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Re: Anyone know of Sweeney or Purtill families (RC) near Cahir 1835-1855 ?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 09 January 17 03:53 GMT (UK) »
Thanks sinann and aghadowey, those would be the ones (I just found a note that Edmond died 1912 age 71 in the workhouse, but no reference).
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

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Re: Anyone know of Sweeney or Purtill families (RC) near Cahir 1835-1855 ?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 09 January 17 04:36 GMT (UK) »
I'm considering two possibilities (the first of which I'd originally ruled out, but now I'm not so certain):

a) Johanna's age is recorded correctly in both the 1901 census and her death record, meaning that she was very young (11-12) when she married. I've started a separate thread "How likely is an 1862 RC marriage with a pregnant bride aged under 12 ?" to try and get some feedback on this.

b) It's extremely unlikely that Johanna got married so young, so the ages recorded in the 1901 census and her death record are almost certainly wrong.


Assuming (b) that her age was recorded wrongly in the census/death record my original question, slightly reworded, is still open.

Does anybody know of any Sweeney families in any of the RC parishes around Cahir in the 1840s?

(I think the 1841 Fethard baptism for an Edmond Purtill is a good bet, although my no means certain. We'll follow that lead and see where it takes us.)
Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)

Offline kob3203

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Re: Anyone know of Sweeney or Purtill families (RC) near Cahir 1835-1855 ?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 12 January 17 03:55 GMT (UK) »
We think we've found the couple we were after over on the other thread. here - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=762613.msg6141789#msg6141789

Johanna Sweeney from Clonmel St Mary: 2 Oct 1843, of Thomas Sweeny + Mary McGrath
Edmond Purtill from Fethard: 20 Apr 1841, of Thomas Purtill + Ellen Hanly

Other Sweeney's (specifically Johannas) found further afield by another researcher:
- Tipperary: 18 July 1838 daughter of Patrick Sweeney and Ann Doherty
- Doon and Castletown: 27 feb 1844 daughter of Patrick Sweeny and Mary Ryan.
- Dungarvan,Watrford: 10 august 1842 daughter of Thomas Sweeny and Johanna Hennessey

Most roots researched back to the early/mid 1800s. Years noted as 'pre' refer to my direct ancestors, although I'm interested in any relatives:
Mitchelstown, Co.Cork: CORBETT (pre1935), SWEENEY  (pre1935), CUSACK? (pre1894), KEYS? (pre1894)
Mallow, Co.Cork: BROWNE (1895-1935)
Caher, Co.Tipp: BROWNE (pre1895), PURTELL(pre1895)
Cashel, Co.Tipp: FANNING (pre1886)
Llanelly, Carms: GRIFFITHS (pre1934), REYNOLDS (pre1901), WILLIAMS (pre1934)
Ton Pentre, Glams: LEWIS (pre1901)