Author Topic: 1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff  (Read 431 times)

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1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff
« on: Tuesday 10 January 17 17:12 GMT (UK) »
Hello everyone  ;)

I have a (partial?) transcript of the marriage of Andrew Powel and Bridget Coquely on 1st August 1840 at St David's Roman Catholic Church in Cardiff.
I wanted to know any information about the couple's fathers, if this is included in the original record.

I contacted Glamorgan Record Office, and the priest seems to have neglected his duty to send in copies for the marriages for the whole September quarter of 1840, so there was never a marriage certificate at Cardiff record office.

Does anyone have access to images of the original register to see what information was recorded? I'd be most grateful.

Snowy greetings and shivers from Berlin
Decor
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Offline Deirdre784

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Re: 1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 19:11 GMT (UK) »
The record is included in the parish register but fathers' names are not recorded until about 1855.

The marriage certificate itself would not be available at the record office but should be available for purchase at the GRO or Cardiff registrars.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

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Re: 1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 19:31 GMT (UK) »
That's a shame. Thanks Deirdre.
I spoke to someone at Glamorgan Record Office, who couldn't find the 1st August marriage or other marriages from that quarter at St David's on the GRO index.
Could it be that no marriage certificate was made? I'm a bit confused! Thanks for your help.
Decor
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Offline Deirdre784

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Re: 1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 19:42 GMT (UK) »
I can't find it on freebmd, or findmypast  ::)

In that case I would contact Cardiff registration office and see if they can help. Maybe the names have been badly transcribed but as you have the date the local office will be able to look at the register. https://www.cardiff.gov.uk/ENG/resident/Births-marriages-and-deaths/Cardiff-Register-Office/Pages/default.aspx

I would suggest you ring them and explain the situation, rather than filling in the form. Good luck.

Edited: Or as you are in Berlin, email them....  registrarsATCardiff.gov.uk [replace AT with @]
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: 1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 20:11 GMT (UK) »
Don't know if this helps but this could be Andrew and Bridget in 1851 at Landore Court, 14, Saint Mary, Cardiff, Glamorganshire [Ref HO107, Piece number 2455, Folio 515, Page 61]

Note the Coakleys with them.... including Mary aged 50, widow (could this be Bridget's mother?).
Andrew Pool Head Married Male 35 1816 Labourer Cork, Cork, Ireland
Briget Pool Wife Married Female 30 1821 - Cork, Cork, Ireland
Catherine Pool Daughter - Female 10 1841 - Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
John Pool Son - Male 4 1847 At Home Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
Thomas Pool Son - Male 1 1850 At Home Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales
John Coakley Visitor Married Male 25 1826 Labourer Cork, Cork, Ireland
Catherine Coakley Wife Married Female 20 1831 - Tenby, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Margaret Bryant Visitor Widow Female 50 1801 At Home Cork, Cork, Ireland
John Coakley Visitor Unmarried Male 26 1825 Labourer Cork, Cork, Ireland
Timothy Coakley Visitor Unmarried Male 20 1831 Labourer Cork, Cork, Ireland
Mary Coakley Visitor Unmarried Female 18 1833 At Home Cork, Cork, Ireland
Thomas Coakley Visitor - Male 14 1837 Labourer Cork, Cork, Ireland
Mary Coakley Visitor Widow Female 50 1801 At Home Cork, Cork, Ireland
Catherine Coakley Visitor - Female 17 1834 At Home Cork, Cork, Ireland
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

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Re: 1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 20:52 GMT (UK) »
Burial on 13 Jan 1868, at St David's, of Mary Coakley, born 1799, aged 69 (and a matching GRO death record Vol 11a, P147).

But you could include the burial details above in your email to Cardiff. They may give you enough info to make sure you have the right person, and her death cert will tell you that she was the widow of ..........
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

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Re: 1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 10 January 17 21:34 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, Deirdre.

Yup, that's them in 1851.
I'll send an e-mail to Cardiff registrars to see what they say.
Thanks for all the help.

Decor :)
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Re: 1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 11 January 17 12:27 GMT (UK) »
The registrars were really helpful and explained the situation:

"I cant find a marriage record  either - civil registration only began in July 1837 - before this only Anglican marriages / Jewish marriages and Quaker marriages were recorded .

Any other denominational marriage ie:  Methodist , Baptist , Presbyterian , Catholic would have to have been registered by a Registrar attending the Church and being present at the ceremony

I looked through  our  marriage register  for 1840 where a Registrar was required to attend but there were no Catholic ceremonies registered in that register . Perhaps  couples were not really concerned with complying with civil law - as long as they were married by their Priest in the eyes of God that was sufficient."
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Offline Deirdre784

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Re: 1840 - St David's Catholic Church, Cardiff
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 11 January 17 13:44 GMT (UK) »
That's a shame as they should have been registered. I wonder how many years that affects as, in fairness, i have been very pleased with the early Catholic records in Cardiff, both St David's and St Peter's.

Not sure why the fathers names are missing, maybe the register they were using didn't have a space for it, but when they started a new register in around 1854/55 the fathers name space was there  🤔
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....