HALE help - please!

[Annie65115]

I have a brickwall with my 6th gt-grandfather who was allegedly from Gloucestershire and I wonder if anyone has access to any resources that might confirm/refute this? Any help would be gratefully received!

Some of the info comes from hearsay from his descendants in the 1800s -- but their facts and figures are generally amenable to being proven by official resources, so they may well be right on this, just that i can't find the resources.

Facts as certainly known:
Thomas HALE married in 1745 in London (to Mary Collins) and promptly went to Darnhall, Cheshire, where he became the schoolmaster and brought up a large family. He died in 1801 in Darnhall. As well as schoolmaster he was a cartographer and had been working in the naval office when he was offered the teaching job. Mary was born in 1728 and it's reasonable to suppose that Thomas was probably a little older than her.

Family legend had it that he was born in Wooton under Edge and ultimately came from the same family as Sir Matthew Hale (completely unproven so far!) He apparently had 2 brothers, Richard (no further info) and John. John married a Mrs Chadwick in Macclesfield (this checks out, marriage in 1761 when John was apparently 32 years old so yob 1729ish. He probably died in 1790, described as "gentleman", may well have been in textile industry).

So, three Hale brothers, Thomas, Richard and John. Possibly from Gloucestershire. Appear to have been middle class. Probably born in the 1710 - 1730 range. I know it's a big ask, but can anyone help? Many thanks in advance.

[Capetown]

According to

Hale-Genealogy.com. Hale families Throughout England

http://www.hale-genealogy.com/enghales/alleng.htm


the marriage of Thomas Hale & Mary Collins was by Licence  (under the Heading: Vicar-General Marriage Licence Allegations 1694-1850)

5 February 1745/46

?Do you have a copy of this Licence as this usually gives extra info.

Find my Past has Faculty Office Licences Transcriptions: Searching: this Licence was in the Dioceses of the Province of Canterbury.   **

and gives the date of 1746.

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? Family Search has

Non-conformist Records

Thomas HALE - marrying 27 June 1746, Fleet London (no Bride's name given)

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From your previous thread.... the children's names were:  Robert, Thomas, Jane, William x 2, Frances, Sophia & Patty. 

Patty is a 'rare' christian name in Gloucestershire - from the Forest of Dean Records there are only 16 Patty's listed  between 1768 and 1945 and no Patty HALE's.

?

Family Search has the burial at Stafford of Patty HALE - 6 March 1777 - parents: James & Ann
probably christened 24 June 1767 at Saint Peter, Droitwich, parents: James & Ann

and the baptism of Patty HALE at Stafford - 16 December 1787 - mother : Rebecca.
Rebecca HALE married Stephen ALLEN 8 January 1788 - Stafford

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There must be family names in these children....

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Looking at the Forest of Dean records for Marriage Allegations/Licences around that time in Wotton

11 April 1752

John HOOPER - aged 22 Batchelor of Wotton underage
Hannah HALE - Spinster

He signs : HOPPER

Marriage Allegation sworn before C Wallington to marry at Dursley.

Gloucestershire Marriage Index CD has

William HALE marrying Lydia MASON at W-U-E : 21 March 1727



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*** I have a transcription of my family in 1808 from Find My Past - which just gives Licence Year/Licence Date - no other information.


Did ask the question on Rootschat Gloucestershire how to go about getting the full transcription and this would cost £15 issued through the Society of Genealogists in London

http://www.sog.org.uk/books-courses/books-publications/faculty-office-marriage-licence-allegation

Fathers won't be named unless one of the spouses admitted to being under 21 and required parental permission to marry.
Approximate ages may be stated (e.g. '21 years and upwards')
There's a small possibility that the groom's occupation will be stated.
Parishes of abode should be stated.

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From the Forest of Dean records the information on Marriage Allegations/Licences are varied.


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The National Archives  records

Held by: Cheshire Archives and Local Studies
Date: 1745-1750
Reference: D 4720/11

Letters and papers relating to appointment of Thomas HALE as headteacher and to necessity of obtaining bishop's licence for same...  etc.

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also

National Archives

Records of Darnhall School
Reference: D 4720

Description:.....   concludes by saying..... and material regarding the controversial appointment of a schoolmaster 1749-50 (Held at Cheshire Archives)

[Capetown]

As one of my ancestors was a writer - I found his list of subscribers to his books of great use i.e. people he had contact with, family etc.

Not sure if you have found this info

Google:



List of Subscribers to Thomas Hale's Harmony 1763

and the Whole Book with music etc has 18 pages of subscribers comes up on  ...



University Library System Digital Library


3 HALE's are listed


Mr Thomas HALE, Junior, Liverpool

Mr Richard HALE, Schoolmaster, St Thomas' Southwark (2 books)  *

Mr John HALE, Macclesfield, Cheshire (2 books)

(there were only a couple of subscribers from Gloucestershire)

+ Mr Jof LEFTER St Thomas School, Southwark.
Mr Jof LEFTER - Newgate Market, London





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Looking at the Cheshire Records Office (on-line) Wills - there are a number of HALE's including

John HALE, Gentleman of Macclesfield 1790 which can be ordered from them for £4.00

Thomas HALE, Gentleman of Faddiley 1791

[JACK GEE]

Hello Annie and Capetown,
 I am looking for some sort of connection to your line of Hale to the Hale of Henbury.
Born circa 1900/10  John Matthew HALE buried Henbury Church Yard and he had a son                                    John Matthew “Jack” HALE    .

Any clues.

Jack Gee                                    

[Annie65115]

Oh my goodness! Thank you Capetown, what a lot of info you have unearthed so quickly!

I don't have a copy of the marriage licence between Thomas and Mary but they were married out of parish (both of Southwark, married in Holborn) and Thomas received his contract for the schoolmaster's job only 3 weeks later. (I hav copies of the paperwork from the NA about this). Perhaps he was required to be married to take up the job, so he and Mary married quickly by licence rather than wait for banns.

I have not seen the list of subscribers to Thomas's book though I know about the book. I shall look into this -- Richard Hale is certainly worth further investigation.

I got sight of the 1790 will of John Hale only yesterday and this confirms that he and my Thomas were brothers       I wonder who the Thomas Hale jnr of Liverpool was?   I believe my Thomas died in 1801 -- certainly there is a burial in the appropriate churchyard for him in this year - but I have never found a will for him. His widow Mary left a will when she died and I have a copy of that.

Jack Gee -- you would probably be best starting your own thread about your Hales (nnot meaning to be rude but people can then concentrate on helping you). In the meantime, have you checked the list of members' surnames of interest? And do you know of this website --- http://www.hale-genealogy.com/ 

[Annie65115]

in the list of subscribers --
Mr Henry Ashby of Wooton under Edge -- so here's a potential Glouc link, and also Thomas's oldest son married Elizabeth Freeman Ashby
Thomas Corbett of Darnhall - the local landowner, and the person who gave Thomas his job in Darnhall, was William Corbett so this is probably the same family

[Capetown]

It's a good long list of his connections which I am sure you will find useful and looks very interesting with the music scores.  May be his other books have subscribers lists as did my 'writer' ancestor.


Mr Henry Ashby of Wotton Under Edge is on Google Books

Born 17 April 1744 - he was a celebrated writing-engraver whose first engagement was with Mr Jefferies at Charing Cross whose maps and charts he prefiext the titles.

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The National Archives appears to have Will(s) etc for Richard HALE of Saint Saviours Southwark around 1766

[Annie65115]

There are 3 wills for Richard Hale in the 1760s on Ancestry, 2 in Southwark and one in lambeth -- but I've just had a look and none of them mentions the three brothers.

[Annie65115]

Sorry, looking at your previous posts I realise I've left a couple of queries unanswered.

The marriage between Thomas Hale is on Ancestry (I can't see anything that matches on FindMyPast).
"Thomas Hale of the parish of Southwarke in the county of Surry batchelor and Mary Collins of the same parish Spinster by licence". Dated Feb 6 1745 -- HOWEVER the previous Dec was also 1745 so on our current calendar we'd call this 1746 (or 1745/6 if you prefer!). The bride's name and details match family written history from the 19th century so I'm happy with this.

Thomas's contract for the schoolteacher post was dated March 13 1745. The 1749/50 paperwork refers to a "hiccup" when the Bishop got upset as he hadn't issued a licence for Thomas. T's sponsor, William Corbett sorted it all out via his solicitor! (Comment from solicitor re the Bishop's emissary -- "his haughty priestlike peremptory ecclesiastical manner"!)

Thomas's children were as you list, plus Josiah (the oldest, and named after Mary's father). Brother John's children were Mary, Sarah, John and Martha.