Author Topic: Is this possible....?  (Read 2413 times)

Offline venelow

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Re: Is this possible....?
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 22 January 17 17:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jomot

Thank you for that. I was not aware that rule was applied so late. So the information about the father could be the truth or a fiction or a bit of both.

Venelow

Offline jaybelnz

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Re: Is this possible....?
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 22 January 17 23:05 GMT (UK) »
Regardless if it was not yet compulsory, the father could still have been present, and that noted.
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Offline Jomot

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Re: Is this possible....?
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 22 January 17 23:46 GMT (UK) »
Regardless if it was not yet compulsory, the father could still have been present, and that noted.

I agree, but was simply pointing out that he equally may not have been and potentially could have been completely unaware that he had been named as the father.

As to the birth certificate of William John Robert Maples, he appears to have been registered as William John Robert Dickinson:

DICKINSON, WILLIAM  JOHN ROBERT   Mother's maiden Name: MAPLES   
GRO Reference: 1846  M Quarter in OTLEY  Volume 23  Page 527

A William Dickinson of Weardley,Yorkshire married Elizabeth Maples of Enfield on 27 Dec 1845 at St Andrew, Enfield, Middlesex.   William's father was named John, and Elizabeth Maples father was Robert. 

So now I'm puzzled as to why WJR was using the surname Maples at all ???
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Jomot

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Re: Is this possible....?
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 22 January 17 23:57 GMT (UK) »
Robert Maples - father of Elizabeth - wrote a will dated 7th August 1854 in which his daughter Elizabeth Dickinson is named.   I'm not the fastest at reading old handwriting put it may reveal something if anyone wants to attempt it?  Its a PCC Will
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.


Offline venelow

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Re: Is this possible....?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 23 January 17 19:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi All

The will reveals that Robert Maples was late of the Ordnance Office and was fairly well off. The 1851 census shows he had a pension. What he does not appear to have had is any sons. At least none living at the time he wrote the Will.

Elizabeth is the only married daughter at the time the Will was written and he sets up a trust for her and her children (not named) to live on should she become widowed. A likely prospect given the age of William Dickinson. Daughters Mary and Matilda are found living in Hackney in 1851. They are in the same street as Robert and Jane but in separate quarters.
The will runs to over four pages and most is about financial matters. His wife Jane nee Gardner is his second wife. They married in 1849. The mother of his three daughters was Sarah Dawson. Married in London in 1811. She is probably the witness at Elizabeth's marriage along with her father Robert.

There are mentions of other Gardners including Maples Gardner a Stationer and Maples Gardner Jr. So it is possible the Gardners and Maples have links in past. The New GRO Index shows Robert Maples was 80 years old when he died in 1856.

It seems William John Robert Dickinson did not use the name Maples but the OP and others (myself included) were led astray by the bizarre baptism entry which makes the parents' surnames appear to be the opposite of what they really were and gives the impression that they were not married.

Good luck to the OP in his continuing search.

Venelow

Offline Jomot

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Re: Is this possible....?
« Reply #14 on: Monday 23 January 17 20:40 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the summary Venelow - I was still ploughing my way through it.

So the OP can probably rule out William John Robert as the father, although as Maples isn't a particularly common surname there could still be some connection to his mother, Elizabeth Dickinson nee, Maples. 

It seems quite a coincidence that her father and grandfather were both called Robert Maples and lived in London/Middlesex, but that she ended up in Weardley, Yorkshire, where someone called Robert Maples allegedly fathered an illegitimate child - although admittedly the fact that he an Ag Lab doesn't fit with the wealthy Maples.  :-\
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline MaplesD

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Re: Is this possible....?
« Reply #15 on: Friday 26 May 17 17:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Graham9510

I have just stumbled across this thread, which sheds a little light on my own research... William John Robert MAPLES (DICKINSON) is my great grandfathers (Robert Maples Dickinson) brother. I don't have any information on his relationships before he married in 1876 to Ann Elizabeth RACE (unconfirmed), but I do have his birth certificate for 27th December 1845. His baptism was on 26th April 1846 at Harewood All Saints, and interestingly, in the surname box, there are two surnames: Maples and Dickinson..

His father William Dickinson was a tenant farmer/labourer in Weardley who was widowed with no children, but who then re-married to a much younger woman, Elizabeth Maples. Elizabeth was from a relatively well-off family in Middlesex, and how the two met remain a mystery!

In "The Notices of the Stables Family..." the family were mentioned:
"Sometime, but not very long, after her death, the Earl of Harewood’s
making some alteration in the farms at Goldsbro, took his [William Dickenson seniors] away from him,but offered him a smaller one at Weardley, of which he accepted, and
removed his goods and chattels there about 1844. In a year or two after
he married a young woman who was some distant relation of his, and whose
parents resided In London. She had been on a visit once or twice at
his house, but was a very unsuitable person for a farmer's wife. After
carrying on for two or three years, he entirely failed as a farmer, and
has since been employed as a farm laborer by the Earl's farmer.
He is still in this capacity residing in the house he had occupied when he had the Meade(?) Farm (1855).
I believe they have now four children.
When they had two [i.e. approx 1850] I was at the house once or twice as a Wesleyan Local
Preacher, and their children were among the worst managed I ever met with. " ...!

In 1861, a William Dickinson from Weardley, aged (it says) 14 (though possibly 16) was working as a ploughboy in Brearton. I haven't confirmed whether this is the same person yet (there were other Dickinsons in Weardley at the time),  but WJRMD eventually ended up labouring for the railways in Leeds, where he married and had one daughter.

I think, in the order of likelihood, it may be that a) either WJRMD was the precocious father,  b) his name was incorrectly applied to the birth certificate, or c) another Robert Maples is the father.

I'd be interested in any more details that you may resolve. Good Luck!