Author Topic: Information in Kirk Session Records  (Read 447 times)

Offline Tikva

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
Information in Kirk Session Records
« on: Saturday 21 January 17 00:18 GMT (UK) »
I was wanting to find out whether or not Kirk Session records would mention if a child that was born illegitimate was raised by his/her father and his wife, rather than being raised by his/her biological mother? 

I have a Helen Memes(s), baptised 5 May 1780 in Garvock, Kinkardineshire, with parents James Memes(s) and Eliz. Adam.  Kirk Session records confirm that she was illegitimate.  On her Death record, IF in fact it is the same Helen Meme(s), her parents are recorded as James Memes and Jean Watt, who married 3 years after the birth of the Helen Meme(s) who was illegitimate.  I am trying to figure out if they are one in the same person.

Thanks!
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,260
  • PASSED & PAST (Speciality - South Uist, Inverness)
    • View Profile
Re: Information in Kirk Session Records
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 21 January 17 02:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tikva,

It's quite possible Helen was raised by her father & family (for whatever reason), possibly her birth mother died young or wasn't in a position to look after her?

If this was the case, she may only have known her father's wife as a 'mother' rather than knowing her birth mother?

Who was the informant on her death?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Tikva

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
Re: Information in Kirk Session Records
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 21 January 17 03:45 GMT (UK) »
Hi Tikva,

It's quite possible Helen was raised by her father & family (for whatever reason), possibly her birth mother died young or wasn't in a position to look after her?

If this was the case, she may only have known her father's wife as a 'mother' rather than knowing her birth mother?

Who was the informant on her death?

Annie

The informant is recorded as a neighbour   :)
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,260
  • PASSED & PAST (Speciality - South Uist, Inverness)
    • View Profile
Re: Information in Kirk Session Records
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 21 January 17 04:08 GMT (UK) »
Hmm....It's very possible the neighbour didn't know that her father's wife was her step-mother or just didn't know what her birth mother's name was.

I have DC's where the child was informant but didn't know their grandmother's maiden name i.e. I wouldn't worry too much.

Was she single when she died?

If so, have you found her on 1841 & who was she living with?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,260
  • PASSED & PAST (Speciality - South Uist, Inverness)
    • View Profile
Re: Information in Kirk Session Records
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 21 January 17 04:14 GMT (UK) »
I forgot to ask if her age on death ties in?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Tikva

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
Re: Information in Kirk Session Records
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 21 January 17 05:18 GMT (UK) »
No, she was married when she died, and he was alive at the time.  His name is recorded correctly on the Death Certificate, so do wonder if he gave the neighbour the information.

In 1841 she was living with her husband, William Craigie, and yes, the age when she died does tie in. 

Also, in the Kirk Session records, her father, James Memes(s) is recorded as living at Arbuthnott, and the James Memes(s) who married Jean Watt is recorded as marrying at Arbuthnott 3 years later.  I can't imagine that James would have 2 daughters with the name Helen.
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,260
  • PASSED & PAST (Speciality - South Uist, Inverness)
    • View Profile
Re: Information in Kirk Session Records
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 21 January 17 05:29 GMT (UK) »
Seems to be the same person.

Were witnesses named on her marriage?

Have you traced her birth mother?

Annie

South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,260
  • PASSED & PAST (Speciality - South Uist, Inverness)
    • View Profile
Re: Information in Kirk Session Records
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 21 January 17 05:34 GMT (UK) »
What were the names of her children in order?

May give some clues?

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Tikva

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
    • View Profile
Re: Information in Kirk Session Records
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 21 January 17 09:01 GMT (UK) »
What were the names of her children in order?

May give some clues?

Annie

I have only managed to find records for 2 of their children - the elder son James, and the younger son John.  William Craigie's father was a John, so first son was probably named after Helen's father.
Sinnamon (and variants); Black; McBreen; Brady. - Northern Ireland & New Zealand
Liggins, Liggons, Liggens (and variants) - Warwickshire, Leicestershire, Derbyshire & New Zealand
Padman (family very much involved in early Wesleyan Church) - England, Australia and New Zealand
Oxley - England, Australia and New Zealand