Author Topic: Whalley, a Traveller  (Read 1538 times)

Offline -Glen-

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Whalley, a Traveller
« on: Wednesday 25 January 17 19:19 GMT (UK) »
Evening All,

I've never researched a Traveller before, so any tips will be greatly appreciated!

"Margaret Elizabeth Whalley Mackenzie" was born 2nd April 1890, at 82 Arundel Street, Drypool, Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire. No father was recorded on the civil birth record. Her mother's Margaret Clunes Mackenzie.

I assumed from the unusual middle name "Whalley" that this could be her father's name.

A few years later, I found the baptism record, which interestingly recorded the father as "Whalley, a Traveller". There's only one name for him, so I don't know if this is his first name or his surname.

The baptism took place in Scarborough, which is where the Mackenzie family lived. I don't know why the baby was born in Drypool. Perhaps this was an unmarried mother's home, or maybe she was sent to a relative to give birth to the "illegitimate" baby.

Any tips on how I might find out more about "Whalley"?

Margaret does not appear at home, with her mother, when the 1891 census was taken.

She does appear with her, in the 1901 census, but strangely her name is Elizabeth Burton. I assume she was adopted by a family called Burton. Years later, in her mother and stepfather's Wills, she's recorded as "Known as Elizabeth Burton".

There's no sign of Whalley, apart from the baptism record, so any pointers would be appreciated. (Is this going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack?!)

Thanks so much!
Glen  :)
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Online CaroleW

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Re: Whalley, a Traveller
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 25 January 17 20:56 GMT (UK) »
Quote
(Is this going to be like looking for a needle in a haystack?!)

Definitely!!

He is shown as a traveller so you have no idea where he was from or how long he was in Yorkshire

The 1891 has 35 male entries for that surname in Yorkshire alone born between 1860-1870.  That assumes he was still in Yorkshire in 1891??

Without a christian name or any other concrete info - how will you determine the correct person?
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Offline Steve G

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Re: Whalley, a Traveller
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 26 January 17 01:39 GMT (UK) »
Glen; " Waller / Whaley " is given, in The Book Of Bob, as having been found used by Gypsys from 1571 ~ 1923 (Intermittently).  The records stemmed from Lancs, Notts and Yorks.

Do we detect at least a faint whiff of smoke there?

Now, in all honesty? I'm always a bit cynical about when they labelled someone " Traveller ", in those days. Gypsys seemed to be called, more often, by their trades. Such as 'Hawker', 'Chair Mender', 'Knife Grinder', what ever. The sealer then coming when it said they were living in a 'Gypsy Caravan' / Tent, what ever.

Of course, by no means all Gypsys were found in wagons or tents. Not all even admitted if they were. Only, before I lose my point completely; " Traveller " was, back in the day, a job description. Travelling Salesman. Quite distinct from  Gypsy Hawker. That's the caveat I always regretfully put in  :-\

Anyway, how mad is this? Whalley is a town in Lancs. It has / had an Abbey. And I used to live in (or certainly right up next to) Drypool, Hull. In a place called " Abbey Gardens "!  ;D

Fit this world on the head of a pin, at the end of the day, couldn't ye?  ;)
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Offline rob g

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Re: Whalley, a Traveller
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 26 January 17 05:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi. Glen. Steve g. Has said it all. no such word for romany folks as traveller in those days. Just reps. Or people passing.
romany history, mitchell family history. Earthenware. general . And horse. I dealers/hawkers. market trading.  lancashire. cumbria. staffordshire.scotland. paternal, side. wilson. lee. burton. miller .burnside. Smith. varey. howard. Jones. Lowther. Evens. Ward. Dale.maternal, side. miller cumbria, stewert. mitchell. allan. Ireland. donaghue, Kelly. Murphy. Young. Plus many others. .


Offline -Glen-

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Re: Whalley, a Traveller
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 16 October 21 13:22 BST (UK) »
Carole / Steve / Rob - thanks very much for your thoughts on Whalley, the Traveller, and apologies for taking this long to read them and reply!!

I think this one is definitely a needle in a haystack! Unless I miraculously come across the adoption/foster records and there's a full name for him in there!

Thanks again,
Glen  :)
Galway, Ireland: Cunningham, Deely, Callanan, Conerneen/Conerney, Mullins and more. London, England:  Callingham, Buck, Parker, Comerford, Staples, Pitter, Gallington, Langhelt, Setzer and more! Bearsted/Maidstone, Kent: Lamkin, Langley, Smith

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Whalley, a Traveller
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 16 October 21 13:56 BST (UK) »

I think this one is definitely a needle in a haystack! Unless I miraculously come across the adoption/foster records and there's a full name for him in there!


Legal adoptions began in 1920s in England.
Did she marry and did she supply a father's name?
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Offline Dundee

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Re: Whalley, a Traveller
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 16 October 21 15:20 BST (UK) »

She does appear with her, in the 1901 census, but strangely her name is Elizabeth Burton.

No it isn't, her name in 1901 is Elizabeth MacKENZIE.  She is Elizabeth BURTON and single in 1939.  I think it is more likely that she had a relationship with a man called BURTON.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X966-ZF9

Debra  :)

Offline Rena

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Re: Whalley, a Traveller
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 16 October 21 18:15 BST (UK) »
Here's something for you to think about.

At the beginning of this century my daughter moved to Clitheroe, Lancashire and each summer I used to drive passed the village of Whalley to visit her and I'd pass a couple or so gypsy caravans pulled by horses travelling towards nearby Whalley.
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