Author Topic: Newry Look Up  (Read 432 times)

Offline Maggie2601

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Newry Look Up
« on: Thursday 26 January 17 18:49 GMT (UK) »
KELLY Catherine x 2.  I have found both, Number 1 born 1877 parents Edward Kelly/Mary Hall, Number 2 born 1879 parents Francis Kelly/Mary Anne Burns.  The parish register appears to show one Catherine marrying Patrick McCarroll on 12th May 1908 another entry shows Catherine marrying Patrick McCarroll on 13th May 1908 but on this one McCarroll is crossed out and Hanna written over the top.  Can anyone throw any light on what might have happened here.  Was it a slip on the part of the priest or did both Catherine's actually get married the day after each other.  If there is a civil record showing a volume and page number for Catherine and Patrick Hanna i would be pleased to know.  I have the marriage certificate for Catherine and Patrick McCarroll on 13th May 1908.
Many thanks

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Offline Sinann

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Re: Newry Look Up
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 26 January 17 19:14 GMT (UK) »
Marriage cert here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10062/5659850.pdf
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01jcu/
Catherine Kelly father Francis. may 13th

Ahh first the computer gives hassle, won't open images and than the links...........

I was going to say all the marriages on that page and the one before are from the same church and there doesn't appear to be one on the 12th May and none seem to have a Patrick Hanna on it.

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Offline Maggie2601

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Re: Newry Look Up
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 26 January 17 19:40 GMT (UK) »
Thank you.  I found the information with the two different marriage dates on Find My Past on film of the actual parish register which led me to question whether there is another civil certificate.

Offline Sinann

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Re: Newry Look Up
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 26 January 17 23:26 GMT (UK) »
I see what you mean, looks a bit odd
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633290#page/183/mode/1up
I'm trying to decide if it's the same hand writing by comparing it to Bannon on the 23rd, I'm leaning towards it being a differen hand.
There also seems to be something at the end, two letters or a number perhaps?

Offline Maggie2601

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Re: Newry Look Up
« Reply #4 on: Friday 27 January 17 09:04 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, I have enlarged it as I had not noticed that there were letters at the end.  I wonder whether they could be the initials of the priest when he made the change!
Given the information that I have everything seems to fit, ie addresses and occupation in the 1911 census, names of siblings except for this surname of McCarroll which ought to be Hanna.  He was a sailor who met an untimely end in Liverpool docks in 1922 by being crushed between a ship and the dock wall and this was registered in the name of Hanna(h) - Liverpool coroner.

Offline Sinann

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Re: Newry Look Up
« Reply #5 on: Friday 27 January 17 14:09 GMT (UK) »
Just a few thoughts,
Did the priest simply make a mistake?
Was Patrick raised by the McCarrolls but discovered he was in fact a Hanna?
Or did Patrick change his name.

The marriages on that page were registered 8th Sept 1908 so the church register must not have been changed until after this date.
What could have happened for someone to look up the marriage and change it but no one bothered getting the civil cert corrected.
Do you know how any children to the marriage were registered?

Offline Maggie2601

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Re: Newry Look Up
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 29 January 17 08:52 GMT (UK) »
Thank you again for your thoughts on my query.  There was only one child and that is the Patrick McCarroll age 2 shown on the 1911 census in the family of Marianne Kelly nee Burns.  His age is correct to fit in with what I know but I haven't checked his registration as I have always been looking for Patrick Hanna.  His father, if Patrick McCarroll (Seaman) died in Liverpool after being injured at the docks but registered as Hanna(h) of 41 Chapel Street by the coroner.  This address is the one that Catherine (widow) lived at until her death but the family were, by then, known as Hanna.  I will have to find out if Patrick senior did in fact live with the McCarroll's as a young man because on the marriage certificate his address is shown as 41 Chapel Street.

Offline Sinann

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Re: Newry Look Up
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 29 January 17 12:01 GMT (UK) »
This family 1911 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Newry_South/Kilmorey_Street/256867/
And Patrick McCarroll birth, father a sailor
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01617/1648416.pdf
With no corrections on the cert.

So I guess the question now is, did that child marry as Hanna?
I wonder if the church register was changed when young Patrick was getting married, that might be when the name change came to the church's attention.
It would be great to be able to see his Communion and Conformation or a school register.

Offline Maggie2601

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Re: Newry Look Up
« Reply #8 on: Friday 03 February 17 20:21 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks yet again for your thoughts.  The family did wonder whether Patrick junior was adopted but I think that it may go back further than that and that it was Patrick senior who cared for by the McCarroll family.  It will take some unravelling if I am to find the answer!!