Author Topic: Samuel Smith c 1808  (Read 5259 times)

Offline bedfordshire boy

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Re: Samuel Smith c 1808
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 01 February 17 20:02 GMT (UK) »
It sounds as though Samuel was bankrupt,and his assets were assigned to two trustees in bankruptcy on behalf of his creditors. But I can't find any such proceedings in the London Gazette.

David
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Offline redtonyt

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Re: Samuel Smith c 1808
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 01 February 17 20:31 GMT (UK) »
David,

I have asked my son for his thoughts on the notice.  Not sure how long it will take for him to reply, he lives in Stockholm.

Tony

Offline redtonyt

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Re: Samuel Smith c 1808
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 01 February 17 21:39 GMT (UK) »
Much quicker than I anticipated.

My son's response,

I have a few thoughts which might (or might not) be heading in the right direction. It does look rather like an informal arrangement with creditors in lieu of bankruptcy. I note the reference to SS's creditors, and since the funds are held on trust for the benefit of those who execute the indenture, it starts to feel like a way to reach an informal (out of court) arrangement. In other words, if you as a creditor execute the indenture, all well and good - but if not, tough luck. Perhaps an integral part of the indenture is that you as a creditor agree to waive your rights in consideration for the share of assets transferred by SS to the trustees.

I came across a scholarly article which looked into the history of bankruptcy laws and while I couldn't get into it, it did seem to suggest that in the 19th century such private law arrangements were favoured in the absence of more flexible statutory bankruptcy rules.

It did also occur to me that the choice of trustees could support this theory - in so far as one of the two trustees is an auctioneer, so very well placed to liquidate any non-cash assets transferred by SS.

Is it unusual that a farmer would be insolvent? Even if this is so, it's eminently likely that SS could have become insolvent in running the business of victualler.

So that's my tuppence worth!

Tony

Offline johnP-bedford

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Re: Samuel Smith c 1808
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 02 February 17 13:08 GMT (UK) »
Could they be non-conformists ? as there is no baptisms found.....

Samuel Smith married Fanny Lovell by licence.... dated 17/3/1835

Also Daniel Rootham of Hinwick married Lydia Smith by licence.... dated 19/6/1834

Lydia Rootham was daughter of John Smith of Hinwick, farmer - as per the Beds Archives online database reference QSR1840/4/5/2/a dated 21 July 1840... re his despositions in a case against Mary Campion. In later censuses Lydia Rootham is born around 1807 at Knotting.

John Smith's other (assumed) sons John 35 & William 40 are with him at Hinwick on 1841 census
William is with his wife Mary SHARP who he married in March qtr 1841 in Wellingborough RD although that was not in Beds as its not the Beds Surnames CD, & as she was from Wilby Northants (which is also in that RD) the marriage may have taken place there, wonder if that was by licence?.  On 1851 William & Mary & children with his brother John are in Hinwick living next door to Daniel & Lydia Rootham. Both William 1818 & John 1805 are down as being born Knotting. John didn't get married.

Another common factor is that Samuel & Fanny had children Lydia & Karrenhappuch, as did William & Mary, while Daniel & Lydia Rootham only had Karrenhappuch. Thus I conclude John, William, Lydia AND Samuel are siblings, born Knotting ... but there's no baptismal evidence to prove it.

Cheers John     
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Offline redtonyt

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Re: Samuel Smith c 1808
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 02 February 17 19:04 GMT (UK) »
Non-conformism is a possibility.  Lydia Smith (d/o Samuel) married into a Family that had a history of Wesleyan worship!

Can I assume that there are no Smith baptisms (to John and Keren-Happuch) to be found in the Parish of Knotting between 1796 and 1812?

Thank you for the information on the Marriage Licences.

Having looked at Lydia Smith I am not convinced about her birth being c1807.  The only evidence of this is the 1851 census, where she is said (as transcribed) to be aged 44.  On a close look at the original her age seems to me to be 49.  The '61 census says age 60.  For what it is worth 1841 has 35 years old!  After 1861 this family appear to emigrate to Nebraska.  There is a headstone available through Find a Grave where Lydia the wife of Daniel Rootham died 8 April 1876, born 12 May 1800!  Four unmarried children can be found in Nebraska for the US Census of 1880.  Son John can be found on the same memorial having died in 1888.

Cheers,
Tony

Offline redtonyt

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Re: Samuel Smith c 1808
« Reply #14 on: Friday 03 February 17 10:34 GMT (UK) »
There is a small article on the Biographical Index of South Australians 1836-1885 wherein,

SMITH, Samuel b:c1805 Chequers Bdf Eng d:28 4 1859.................occ:Butcher res:Marion

Any thoughts on "Chequers"?

Tony


Offline johnP-bedford

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Re: Samuel Smith c 1808
« Reply #15 on: Friday 03 February 17 14:23 GMT (UK) »
Could it be the Chequers public house in Yelden, just up road from Knotting ?

http://www.rushdenheritage.co.uk/Yelden/oldchequers.html

.... it has a Smith family, maybe a connection ?
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Offline redtonyt

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Re: Samuel Smith c 1808
« Reply #16 on: Friday 03 February 17 19:06 GMT (UK) »
Thanks John,

There may well be a connection.

Considering how difficult it has been to tie down Samuel and assuming he is the son of John, I am not sure how much further I can get.  Is John Smith the most common name in England?  Aggggggggh.  So, finding any link to the Rushden Heritage Article might prove difficult!

All the best,
Tony

Offline Judith Haselton

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Samuel Smith,born 1805, butcher marr. Fanny Lovell-daughter kerenhappuch
« Reply #17 on: Monday 27 February 17 22:32 GMT (UK) »
Samuel and Fanny migrated to South Australia on the Susannah in 1849 with family. They were born in Bozeat and Puddington Bedfordshire and died in Adelaide 28.4.1859 and 24.5.1894 resp.

Judy H