WDYTYA Series 13: Greg Davies

[AndrewJE]

Watched the programme tonight

Wanted to know if William Owen already married when Greg's ancestor born and that was why he was paying maintenance
Frustratingly the program didn't show the how long married column in 1911 census of William and Martha Owen or indeed their marriage certificate. So I looked them up on FindMyPast.
1911 census says married for 3 years , but we saw first child born in 1907, indicating married April - Dec 1907.
However can find no marriage between  a William Owen and Martha Williams.
 Suspect they were never married and fled to South Wales and just told everyone they were married...

[LizzieW]

I think Greg was a bit harsh about William, especially when he said he connected more with William's father.  Looking at it from William's viewpoint, he is born, his mother dies 9 days later and he is farmed off to his grandparents.  After a couple of years his father re-marries and starts another family but William doesn't appear to be living with his father and new family - no wonder he went off the rails a bit.  To him it must seem that his father, perhaps, blamed him for the death of his first wife, then when he re-married he didn't want him in his family.

Like you, I thought William and Martha probably didn't marry, I guess Martha was just more persuasive in getting William to stand up to his responsiblities  although if his ancestor (the one in S Wales, can't remember was she is g.granddaughter?) was to be believed he was not a good husband and Martha didn't want her daughters to marry if they were to suffer as she had.  Meanwhile, Greg's g.grandmother married someone else who took in William's children and seemed to be happy, so perhaps she was the winner after all.

ps.  Wouldn't it be good if we could all find the fathers of our illegitimate ancestors so easily?

[ThrelfallYorky]

I'd have liked to see the final column of that 1911 census, just to see if William and his wife were heading for where she had come from - so often if there's been a failing in one area people seem to move to where the other partner originated from, where they may well have had family to support them.
There seem to be quite a lot of marriages "missing from records" in Wales, if my OH's lot are anything to go by. Someone suggested to me that many were "married" in chapels, not recognised as legal??
Overall, though, this series is a good 'un. Pity broken up again - not one next week, got to wait a fortnight for the next one. Drat!

[kooky]

Enjoyed this one.
It was easy to watch.
Still thinking about his reactions to information!
Kooky

[LizzieW]

I'd have liked to see the final column of that 1911 census, just to see if William and his wife were heading for where she had come from

She was also born in Carnarvon in a place called Dolbenman (correct spelling is Dolbenmaen).  The census also shows married 3 years, 4 children born, 2 alive, 2 died.  I assume the two who were born and died were after the youngest who was only 2 in 1911.  Interestingly he too was born in Carnarvon, so William and his family must have moved after his birth in 1909.

Unfortunately, there are far too many Owens with mother's maiden name Williams to work out which are their children.  I thought the child on the birth cert they showed us of William and Martha born 1907 was called Elizabeth, which is interesting in itself because there is no Elizabeth Owen born 1907 to a mother with maiden name Williams, only 1905 and 1908 - at least on the GRO site.  I assume the little girl called Bessie on the 1911 census was really Elizabeth.  Also there are 2 Robert Owens (the son named on the 1911 census) born in Carnarvon to an Owen, maiden name Williams, one in 1906 and one in 1910.

I can only think that many of the Welsh records are not on the main GRO website.

[heywood]

I think Greg was a bit harsh about William, especially when he said he connected more with William's father.  Looking at it from William's viewpoint, he is born, his mother dies 9 days later and he is farmed off to his grandparents.  After a couple of years his father re-marries and starts another family but William doesn't appear to be living with his father and new family - no wonder he went off the rails a bit.  To him it must seem that his father, perhaps, blamed him for the death of his first wife, then when he re-married he didn't want him in his family.

Like you, I thought William and Martha probably didn't marry, I guess Martha was just more persuasive in getting William to stand up to his responsiblities  although if his ancestor (the one in S Wales, can't remember was she is g.granddaughter?) was to be believed he was not a good husband and Martha didn't want her daughters to marry if they were to suffer as she had.  Meanwhile, Greg's g.grandmother married someone else who took in William's children and seemed to be happy, so perhaps she was the winner after all.

ps.  Wouldn't it be good if we could all find the fathers of our illegitimate ancestors so easily?

I really enjoyed this programme.
I loved the obvious affection for his late father which encouraged the search.
He did seem to acknowledge the difficulties that William had caused both at the time and now in the revelations about him.
I think he identified with Evan because of his father's traits.
The lady in South Wales was William's daughter so had both first hand knowledge of him plus her mother's words about him.
A good watch!

[jillruss]

I loved the bit at the end when everyone in the pub raised their hand to the question about being descended from Owain Glyndwr. I'd love to know if this was Greg's idea or if the production team have actually come to realise just how ridiculous all these claims to be descended from royalty are!! Either way, I chuckled!! 

I enjoyed this one - nothing spectaclar but good honest family history like most of us discover.

I agree that this series is a definite improvement on recent ones - mind you, I'm discounting the first episode, which belonged in the Carry On series....

[rosie17]

I loved the bit at the end when everyone in the pub raised their hand to the question about being descended from Owain Glyndwr. I'd love to know if this was Greg's idea or if the production team have actually come to realise just how ridiculous all these claims to be descended from royalty are!! Either way, I chuckled!! 


 
Yes I also enjoyed it and the affection he had for his late father ...Nice meeting up with his relative didn't she look well
Rosie

[Alberbury]

I loved the bit at the end when everyone in the pub raised their hand to the question about being descended from Owain Glyndwr. I'd love to know if this was Greg's idea or if the production team have actually come to realise just how ridiculous all these claims to be descended from royalty are!! Either way, I chuckled!! 

I enjoyed this one - nothing spectaclar but good honest family history like most of us discover.

I agree that this series is a definite improvement on recent ones - mind you, I'm discounting the first episode, which belonged in the Carry On series....

The wrong Owain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owain_Gwynedd     

Owain ap Gruffudd (c. 1100 – 23 or 28 November 1170) was King of Gwynedd, North Wales, from 1137 until his death in 1170, succeeding his father Gruffudd ap Cynan. He was called "Owain the Great" (Welsh: Owain Mawr) [1] and the first to be styled "Prince of Wales".[2] He is considered to be the most successful of all the North Welsh princes prior to his grandson, Llywelyn the Great. He became known as Owain Gwynedd (Middle Welsh: Owain Gwyned, "Owain of Gwynedd") to distinguish him from the contemporary king of Powys Wenwynwyn, Owain ap Gruffydd ap Maredudd, who became known as Owain Cyfeiliog.[3]