Author Topic: John Sutherland 1818-1857  (Read 809 times)

Offline andmc1

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
John Sutherland 1818-1857
« on: Thursday 02 February 17 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi
i want to find out more about John Sutherland  born (Brighton) Brighthelmstone area approx 1818

from his marriage to Mary Poet  (possible poett/ Poate) father george  ( shoe manufacture)
4 sept 1842 southwick sussex
he was a sailor
his father was John Sutherland a Brewers Clerk

i have found him on 1851
33 middle street brighton
john    sutherland  34               boot clicker    Brighton
mary                               30       Dress maker   Brighton
richard                      4               Scholar              Brighton
emma                             1                                    brighton
Elizabeth clark 83 (?) visitor widow Propieter of Houses Brighton         
Elizabeth Richards52 Servent                  Warwick, Warwickshire,

he seemed to have 2 families in
 brighton and
another in norwich   he died in norwich norfolk
after his death  both familys listed   wife as widow 


andrea

 

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,992
    • View Profile
Re: John Sutherland 1818-1857
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02 February 17 10:40 GMT (UK) »
Which is his family in 1851 and 1861 Norwich  (dates amended)
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,992
    • View Profile
Re: John Sutherland 1818-1857
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 02 February 17 11:01 GMT (UK) »
I am confused  ;D

John bn Brighton in 1841 census is a shoemaker

When he marries from his marriage to Mary Poet  (possible poett/ Poate) father george  ( shoe manufacture) 4 sept 1842 southwick sussex

1851 he is in Brighton with his wife & children

1861 his wife is head of house with 2 youngest children and says she is married.
....

Where does this information come from
he was a sailor  his father was John Sutherland a Brewers Clerk

What information does the Norwich death certificate give

Who were the witnesses to the Brighton wedding
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline andmc1

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Sutherland 1818-1857
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 02 February 17 12:09 GMT (UK) »
hi
as you say he seems to be in Brighton as a shoemaker  on 1841 census

The details about him being a Sailor came from the marriage entry seen in Chichester Archives

 As you say all other records have him as shoe maker

john death cert
paralysis from cerebral apoplexy     which i assume is a stroke    he was a shoe maker

i am a descendant of his 2nd family in Norwich
the children were listed under surname ward
his eldest son Richard born to his Wife Mary and   is in norwich living with Ann (Ward) Sutherland
1861
1861 Census
Heigham
3 Sulivan Street

Ann    sutherland      34      married wife   book (possibly  boot) travellors Wife Norwich
richard      14     Scholar                                                           sussex Brighton
ann           6           scholar                                                           norfolk norwich
catherine 4          scholar                                                    lanc wigan
jane          2                                                                            norfolk norwich
eliza 4 months                                                              norfolk norwich
elizabeth ward 11 wife sister scholar  norfolk norwich


later we see richard had Bad sight ( 1901 census) prehaps this is why he is norfolk  and not brighton


 





Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,992
    • View Profile
Re: John Sutherland 1818-1857
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 02 February 17 17:44 GMT (UK) »
I see that most of the Ward children have a middle name Playford and that Catherines birth gives her mmn as Playford.  Do you have any of the Ward childrens birth certificates that confirm John Sutherland was their father.  :-\   

Was  Ann -  Anny Playford age 24 unmarried Shoe binder in 1851  :-\


Norfolk News 24 December 1859 mentions John Sutherland late of King Street, Norwich - out of business and unemployed - previously of Wigan & Manchester more detail in the article

Also mentioned Norfolk Chronicle 24 June 1865 - page 7

Possible obituary - Norwich Mercury 23 March 1867

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline andmc1

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Sutherland 1818-1857
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 02 February 17 20:57 GMT (UK) »
hi
i am going over research i have had for  over 15 years ( done in Archive libraries )
a lot more is on line now .

i have jane playford ward  birth certificate  no father listed    my gt Grandmother
my mum only  her surname as sutherland


playford seems to come from ann playford ward 1826 ( the person i have as mother to John sutherland Children  ) her father was  john playford ward 1801 born wood dalling norfolk with only a mother elizabeth ward  listed at christenning ( she appears to have 5 children no father with john being the only one with playford as a middle name )

loking at my reasearch now  i have done a lot of guess work from 1861 heigham census

with ward children and  richard born in brighton
i have richard`s birthcertificate 1847
  mother Mary poett  john sutherland father shoemaker

of interest  ann  ( Maria)   matilda  Playford Ward Sutherland  1855
Married a Famous Cricketer Fuler Pilch

newspaper articles fit where children born

i had not fund ann ward  on 1851  so will look at this


Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,992
    • View Profile
Re: John Sutherland 1818-1857
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 09 February 17 09:47 GMT (UK) »
Sorry but I can't see anything else at the moment

Rosie
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline andmc1

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: John Sutherland 1818-1857
« Reply #7 on: Monday 09 October 17 20:42 BST (UK) »

hi i have been told  edwin sutherland was christened 1/4/1868 heigham  holy trinity with a  note saying born 28 oct 1867
parents john sutherland  Shoe Maker  and ann

i was thinking the birth was oct -dec 1866 from BDM Edwin s Ward

would you be able to look at this record for me


thank you

andrea


 

 

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,992
    • View Profile
Re: John Sutherland 1818-1857
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 10 October 17 12:41 BST (UK) »
i have been told  edwin sutherland was christened 1/4/1868 heigham  holy trinity with a  note saying born 28 oct 1867
parents john sutherland  Shoe Maker  and ann
Freereg has the birthdate as 18th October 1867.


The GRO index for the Ward birth you have found has no mothers maiden name which often indicates illegitimacy
WARD, EDWIN  SUTHERLAND     -    
1866  Dec Quarter - NORWICH reg district 
Volume 04B  Page 164
This index is searchable at https://www.gro.gov.uk you just need to register.  If you have ordered certificates online from the GRO in the past those registration details will work.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk