Learning Welsh

[Ayashi]

My ancestors, or at least some of them, came from Carmarthenshire. A couple of weeks back I idly decided to entertain myself by trying my hand at learning Welsh and found a free online course from the Open University for beginners Welsh (supposedly South Wales vocab, which I like because it was the vocab of my ancestors!). My pronunciation is naturally godawful but I imagined I might be able to converse in writing once I'd learned enough. I haven't been doing too badly, but something has unnerved me a bit.

When I googled a particular phrase that I hadn't been taught yet, I came across sites that gave different phrases/spellings to the ones I'd learned, for example I was taught "Ble dych chi'n byw?" but it seems "ydych" is a more common word, or "Beth yw'ch enw chi?" when I've also seen "Beth ydy'ch enw chi?"

I know that North and South Wales have some regional differences and it might be that I'm also being taught more casual vocabulary rather than the Welsh equivalent of Queen's English?I also know that just in English there must be several ways of saying the same thing. I just want to be sure that what I'm being taught at the moment is valid and I'm not going to have to relearn various phrases. I don't want to get too far into learning it if I need to find a different source.

I suppose I'm also nervous of trying to strike up a conversation with someone in Welsh and having the other person completely slaughter what I've just written because of spelling, grammar or vocabulary.

Ayashi

[Deirdre784]

Congratulations Ayashi, it's not an easy language to learn, not least because of the differences you've already discovered As far as I can remember, ydych is the more formal / written word.

I did a crash course about 30 years ago but sadly rarely had a chance to chat with anyone. And I sounded very English! I can still remember lots of words but find it very difficult to put together a whole sentence!

However, most Welsh speakers are pleased to hear you try so do persevere (especially if you are enjoying the course).   

[Ayashi]

Thanks. Would you recommend that I start using ydych instead of just dych?

I did learn French and German at school but wasn't too great at it. For one thing, I have Asperger's and talking out loud was something that was intensely uncomfortable. I failed my AS German exam because I walked out. One thing that really killed it for me when I was doing German was when we got to nominative, dative, etc and then my understanding flew out of the window. I don't really expect to end up fluent!

I suppose I should carry on for now and see how it goes?

Ayashi

[Deirdre784]

Carry on - if you're enjoying it - but it might be easier to stick with what the course is teaching you as there are probably a lot of other 'spoken' words. You will be understood.

Hopefully others - real Welsh speakers - will join in and encourage you.

Pob lwc 😀   

[Sam Swift]

Sut Mae or Shwmae Ayashi

The emphasis in most Welsh courses seem to be to teach you what you rightly guess as being a more casual version of what you would class as the "Queen's English" or literary Welsh (used in written language). It's more important for learners to be able to speak in a way that is understood by all, using the sort of language that is actually spoken, so you can speak it and use it. It isn't that different really, apart from shortening the actual words as in the example you gave ble dach chi'n byw as opposed to ble ydych chi'n byw). If anything the courses devised by WLPAN in Wales (as opposed to the OU) tend to use the word "ti" rather than chi (which is more familiar), so most people would, especially if they know each other, say ble wyt ti'n byw or ble ti'n byw instead of ble dach chi'n byw.  The younger generation will almost always use this kind of casual Welsh. Don't know of many others like myself who still prefer to stick to "proper" Welsh.
Hwyl   

[Ayashi]

Diolch yn fawr 

[nestagj]

Helo - sut wyt ti !

Those of us who are welsh speaking know both versions - both the familiar - ti a chdi and the formal /  polite - chi.   We were brought up to use the familiar for family and the polite for people we didn't know so well and the elders in the family to show respect.

Nowadays as mentioned previously we tend to use the familiar - although when I speak to clients I use the formal version.

Whatever you use when chatting to us - we will happily reply to it ; its great that someone has decided to make the effort to learn our language.

I don't know if you have any welsh facebook friends but I guarantee you that our welsh teachers would be having fits if they saw how we chat to each other by text and Facebook and messenger - we tend to use the very informal welsh that we chat with day to day.   Although we all can and do use the "proper" welsh when there is a need to.

Just a quick warning tho' - google translate is not the best to use to try and translate stuff - it can come out with some very weird variations on the language.   There are other programmes out there to use.

Pob Hwyl !
Nesta

[Hinso]

I don't know if you have any welsh facebook friends but I guarantee you that our welsh teachers would be having fits if they saw how we chat to each other by text and Facebook and messenger - we tend to use the very informal welsh that we chat with day to day.   Although we all can and do use the "proper" welsh when there is a need to.

I have a relative who actually teaches Welsh and she uses 'joio' instead of mwynhau (enjoy).

[Ayashi]

Helo - sut wyt ti !

Iawn, diolch. A chithau? 

Just a quick warning tho' - google translate is not the best to use to try and translate stuff - it can come out with some very weird variations on the language.   There are other programmes out there to use.

Oh boy don't I know it. Many years ago I decided to translate "My family come from Wales" and then ran it back through and got something along the lines of "Family Servant Shovel Heartburn". Still a mystery to me, that one lol

Ayashi