Author Topic: Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading  (Read 784 times)

Offline leslam

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Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading
« on: Thursday 02 February 17 11:17 GMT (UK) »
In my search, I recently came across a transcribed record for Elizabeth Buckland (d 1866 I think) buried in London Road Cemetery in unconsecrated ground. That's all I can remember as I stupidly didn't take a screen shot; I dismissed it as not being 'mine', because she had asked in her will to be buried at Highgate Cemetery with her husband. No idea what happened there, but he's there with his sister-in-law and she's nowhere to be found, so I now think that the London Road one is her! Of course, now I can't find where I saw the record.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.... :) :)

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Offline artifis

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Re: Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading
« Reply #1 on: Friday 03 February 17 15:35 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to RootsChat.   :)

I've had a look at my copy of the Berks FHS Berkshire Burial Index, 7th Edition, and I can't find a burial for an Elizabeth Buckland in 1866.

There is a burial of an Eliza Buckland on 27 February 1859 aged 22 in unconsecrated ground at the London Road, Reading cemetery. Registered Reading Q1 vol 2c page 257.

There is a death of an Elizabeth Buckland registered in Reading in Q3 1866 vol 2C page 225 aged 72.

There are later editions of the burial index to mine so maybe someone with one of those could check to see it Elizabeth's burial was an omission in mine.  The fact that she's missing from the index seems to indicate that she was buried elsewhere than in Berkshire which ties in with your findings that she wanted to be buried with her husband.




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Offline HarryW

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Re: Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 04 February 17 09:48 GMT (UK) »
I have v11 of the burial index - no Elizabeth BUCKLAND shown buried anywhere in 1866 I'm afraid.

There is an Elizabeth BUCKLAND buried 1 Nov 1872 aged 78 at London Rd (unconsecrated ground)
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Offline artifis

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Re: Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 04 February 17 15:40 GMT (UK) »
The death registration for the 1872 Elizabeth is Reading Q4 1872 vol 2c page 203

The probate of her will is interesting:

Probate date 18 Aug 1866.
The will of Elizabeth Buckland formerly of Charles Street Northampton-square afterwards of 1 Rosenau Cottage Brecknock-crescent Camden Town but late of 1 Waterloo-place Shepherd's Bush all in the County of Middlesex  Widow deceased who died 7 August 1866 at Reading in the County of Berks was probed at the Principal Registry by the oaths of John Carlow of 41 Bury0street Jerymn-street St. James in the County of Middlesex aforesaid Tailor and Isabella Mackrill (Wife of William Edward Mackrill) of 1 Palace-villas Palace-road Bromley Common in the County of Kent the Executors.  Effects under £600

Doesn't help with her burial location but does indicate that she moved about quite a lot, not sure why so many former addresses given.

I looked at the Highgate Cemetery web site but they charge £45 for a full search which is a considerable sum to pay on the off chance she's somewhere in either the west or east cemeteries there.

You say that her husband is buried in Highgate Cemetery as is his sister-in-law.  Are they in a family plot, i.e. multiple burials, or are they simply in different areas of he cemetery?

Offline leslam

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Re: Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading
« Reply #4 on: Monday 06 February 17 12:56 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all for your help. I've been away for the weekend and I must have missed selecting an option to get an alerting email!

artifis - Thank you; the Reading death registration is the correct one, so I have obviously noted the wrong burial, as the one you mentioned from 1859 was the one I had spotted.
I have her full will and probate; she did ask to be buried with her husband, but she isn't in his grave (her sister is). I have a deceased online sub and checked the number in the grave. I have also searched the records without finding another grave for her

The addresses in Camden are with both relevant to her and her family both during her marriage and as a widow; she was in Reading (as a widow) because she appears to have moved there to help with her nephew's children. The nephew and niece then died and she stayed on; I suspect that there was no one left in her immediate family to ensure that her burial wishes were carried out.

Again, thank you - I will continue my search ....

Offline artifis

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Re: Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading
« Reply #5 on: Monday 06 February 17 15:18 GMT (UK) »
How very intriguing her sister being recorded as buried with her husband.  Do you know if it's a family plot, i.e. two or more burial plots wide, or just a single burial width plot?  It it's the latter then that sounds very unusual to me, a man with his sister-in-law buried 'on top of him'.

I wonder if there's been a recording error somewhere along the line and as you can't find Elizabeth's burial it's actually her buried with her husband as per her wishes and that that was arranged by her sister - the names somehow/where being transposed.

Do you know if there is a headstone or memorial on the grave?

Have you thought of trying to trace the sister's death/burial, if that was post Elizabeth's death/burial that would lead weight to a transcription/recording error.  Is the sister in the 1871 census for instance.

Have you found a will and probate for the sister?

Thinking about her will, surely it would have been her executors responsibility to comply with her wishes and would her executors have had to show evidence of their compliance when they sought probate?  Not sure as I don't know that much about probate.

Incidentally just eleven days from her death to grant of probate seems a very short period, all the probates I have found for my ancestors and for others have been considerably longer than that.  Were the executors the beneficiaries of her will and therefore have an interest in spending as little as possible on her burial - according to the National Archives money's spending worth converter £600 in 1866 would be worth between £25,000 and £27,000 at 2005 values so Elizabeth wasn't a pauper by any means. 

I also think that to keep Elizabeth above ground until probate was obtained wouldn't have been a consideration in Victorian times especially as the probate date would be uncertain therefore her funeral costs would surely have been included in the probate application as presumably the executors would have had to pay this out of their funds to be reclaimed when probate granted.  Even in eleven + days she would 'have gone off' somewhat even if fully embalmed.

Please let us know what you find as there appears to be lessons to be learnt for all of us and let us know if there's anything else we can check for you.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading
« Reply #6 on: Monday 06 February 17 15:26 GMT (UK) »

I looked at the Highgate Cemetery web site but they charge £45 for a full search which is a considerable sum to pay on the off chance she's somewhere in either the west or east cemeteries there.


Highgate cemetery is on Deceased online
https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline leslam

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Re: Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading
« Reply #7 on: Monday 06 February 17 15:33 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Rosie - I have checked there, which is where I have the information about the sister-in-law being buried in the grave

Thanks Artifis - I have followed up the sister's death some time ago ( before I knew she was buried at Highgate!) and I have all wills. I will dig those and go back through those so I can answer more fully shortly ...

Offline leslam

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Re: Elizabeth BUCKLAND - London Road Cemetery, Reading
« Reply #8 on: Monday 06 February 17 18:26 GMT (UK) »
I've found her burial record - in Highgate!! She's not however in the grave index register; my cousin who is in contact with Highgate about another grave on 'her' side is going to ask if they will check the 'day book' for the date to see if there is an omission

To complete the process, I have answered the questions posed as it might help someone else!


Do you know if it's a family plot, i.e. two or more burial plots wide, or just a single burial width plot?  It it's the latter then that sounds very unusual to me, a man with his sister-in-law buried 'on top of him'.
They had lived all together and I'm wondering about a 'special' relationship (see below)
Incidentally, I have a family grave in Birmingham (single, dug to 12’) that has 6 in it, including father and brothers and sisters
At the moment I don’t know the answer to this one – my cousin is on the case as she has others in Highgate

I wonder if there's been a recording error somewhere along the line and as you can't find Elizabeth's burial it's actually her buried with her husband as per her wishes and that that was arranged by her sister - the names somehow/where being transposed.
I’ve now found her burial record; Ancestry has the burial records for Highgate (as opposed to grave register) are in Camden – St James St Pancras, so I stepped through 1866 until I found Elizabeth. She was buried 13 Aug 1866. Surname is quite scrawled, but the “Abode” address is Waterloo Place that is mentioned in the Probate register

Do you know if there is a headstone or memorial on the grave?
No, but cousin now on the case with this, as she has already made contact with Highgate for ‘her’ side

Have you thought of trying to trace the sister's death/burial, if that was post Elizabeth's death/burial that would lead weight to a transcription/recording error.  Is the sister in the 1871 census for instance.
Have you found a will and probate for the sister?

I already have the death, will and probate in 1843 for sister Jane. Elizabeth was the executor; there was no indication as to where she would be buried, but as John had only been buried in Highgate the year before, I suppose it seemed sensible to her. Interestingly, John made specific provision for his sister-in-law in his will “Wife’s sister Jane, interest of £300 stock in 3½% secured for her natural was sensible.”, so maybe there was an interesting relationship there….

Thinking about her will, surely it would have been her executors responsibility to comply with her wishes and would her executors have had to show evidence of their compliance when they sought probate?  Not sure as I don't know that much about probate.
I would have thought so – which is one of the reasons why that, prior to release of Highgate register on deceased online, I had always assumed she would be there!

Were the executors the beneficiaries of her will and therefore have an interest in spending as little as possible on her burial
It would seem that the executors weren’t beneficiaries