William John Williams

[Chris1286]

Can anyone help on the above. I have his marriage certificate dated the 13.9.1939 when he married Jessie Ann Ritchie, she was born in 1910 at Macduff, Banarkshire.
What I have on the certificate is that William John Williams was 67 years old? It states that he was formerly married to Alice Elizabeth Williams, formerly Hunter. I have never seen that before on a certificate. Also the age difference, 67 to 29 years. They were married in Surrey. William was a Chief Steward Mercantile Marine. His father was Albert Williams (deceased) also a Chief Steward. He was also known as William Williams.
From Williams daughter after the marriage, the couple moved to Rock Ferry, Birkenhead. Jessie her Mum was a school teacher.
William worked for the Ellerman Shipping Line and his ship was sunk in the WW11. The ships he worked on were The City of Dunkirk or The City of Lillie. Neither were sunk according to the Ellerman Line website. From his daughter, he was rescued and taken to Brazil, where he was there for about 3 months? He returned home and was to ill to carry on in the Merchant Navy, so he worked on local ships in the Birkenhead area. She questions the age on the marriage certificate?
He died around 1950ish in the Birkenhead area. His daughter was a little girl.
Can anyone help in tracing this man?

[rosie99]

Have you found him on the 1939 register 

[Chris1286]

No, Ive not found him in that register. Chris Reeves

[seaweed]

All I can find in Merchant Navy records is a Medal listing. With a date of birth of 1871. There is no way of knowing at this stage, if it is him.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4370529

Could you tell us his place of birth and if possible his exact date of birth.
Do you know when he served on CITY OF DUNKIRK or CITY OF LILLE?
I will contact poster HMac, who is somewhat of an expert on Ellerman Line. (His dad was torpedoed on CITY OF CARIO), to ask him for an opinion

[Chris1286]

Thanks for your interest. I don't know much more about him. I am getting this information from his daughter, she was about 10 when he died. So she doesn't know much, all this has come from her mother who has passed on. I get the feeling that there might be some half truth in his storey? But what is on the marriage certificate is plain fact. I have a copy.
Chris Reeves

[HMac]

I think you have found him SW born 12. January 1871, Liverpool.
He has a CR1 and CR2 detailing ships from 1925 to 1939. Will dig a bit more.

As per my website: http://www.sscityofcairo.co.uk/warlosses.php - neither of those ships were war losses. However, the last ship mentioned on his CR2 card, was CITY OF SHANGHAI. There is no date of engagement (sometimes the clerks missed things like that).  We do know that this ship was torpedoed and sunk on  10/5/41 by U-103 (Schutze). We probably need to get his CRS 10 to find out his WW2 service record.

Added:* he is shown on CITY OF LILLE 3.12.1935.

Regards
Hugh

[MaureeninNY]

This looks like a daughter from his first marriage:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKMR-X2HQ

The family are in Toxteth Park on the 1901 census.

William Williams and Alice Hunter married West Ham 1899.


Maureen

[seaweed]

Thanks Hugh.
It looks like CITY OF SHANGHAI is a likely contender for the ship he was torpedoed on.  Unfortunately U Boat.net doesn't  have a complete crew list for this vessel.
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/crews/ship919.html

All very interesting, I hear you say but how do's this information help me find out what happened to him.
As mentioned by Hugh you need to get hold of his form CRS10
This should tell you all of his ships from early 1941. You can then look at the vessels crew agreement, which should tell you his Next of Kin and his last address. Armed with this info, You can then go on to look at other records to build a bigger picture.
Let us see what Hugh digs up.

[Chris1286]

Where do I find the CRS10. Once again thanks for all the help. Chris Reeves