St Mary the Virgin Dover - VINALL

[LesleyMWood]

Could somebody please check the baptismal records for St Mary the Virgin in Dover to see if there is mention of a Richard Vinall born c.1809.  Parents might be Richard Vinall & Ann Smee who were married in this church on 18 April 1808. 

If Richard wasn't baptised in Dover then perhaps St Mary's Chatham as that is where he himself married in 1828.

I have searched on-line via FindMyPast and Ancestry but this produces only one baptism for Richard in St Mary's Portsea, Hampshire in 1809. I think this is in unlikely to be my man, who after his marriage lived in Poplar & Limehouse.  He died in 1856 but I cannot find him on the 1851 Census to glean more information about his place of birth.

Thank you, Lesley

[rosie99]

Why are you discounting the Portsea Richard     

Portsea to Chatham is quite feasible with a military link.  Have you looked to see what happened to that one.

[LesleyMWood]

Hi Rosie, it's complicated but I'll attempt to explain:

After finding the Portsea baptism I searched for other Vinall baptisms with same parents (Richard & Ann) and in the same church, nothing came up plus or minus 20 years. I broadened my search to include other counties/areas but this only produced some baptisms in Chatham and Rochester, between 1813 and 1828.  I also looked for a marriage of a Richard & Ann and the only one that was remotely close was the marriage of Richard Vinall to Ann Smee in Dover in 1808. Of course that is not to say there are other marriages that are not yet available on-line.

After Richard died his widow, Jane, started to live with a Thomas Vinall as his wife.  I believe Thomas might be Richard's brother, who was a widower and living close by. I have not been able to find a marriage for them. Of course in those days it was illegal for a man to marry his former sister-in-law so this might account for the lack of a marriage. 

On the various census returns Thomas Vinall states he was born in Chatham between 1812-1815.  On his marriage certificate (1838) he states his father to be Richard Vinall a Shipwright (forgot to mention Richard & Jane married pre civil registration in 1828 and record of marriage does not mention father's name so I can't prove my 'brothers theory').  I found a possible baptism for him in Bethal Weslyn Rochester in 1815.

I have one other piece of circumstantial evidence; after Richard's daughter gave birth to an illegitimate child in Wapping Workhouse she was discharged and the record is annotated "Chatham". I'm not sure if she was actually removed to Chatham or whether they charged Chatham for her keep but this indicates that they considered Chatham to be the parish responsible for her relief.

So, I am not discounting the baptism in Portsea (which by the way is a transcript from the IGI) but on the other hand I have nothing to indicate it might be the right one.  I just want to try another approach and I think checking the actual parish registers in Chatham & Dover is the right way to go. 

Hope that all makes sense!  It's an old chestnut that I just can't crack!

Lesley 

[Ladyhawk]

Can I check that this is the correct family on 1841 census
HO107; Piece: 702 Poplar Middlesex; ED27; Folio: 25; Page: 11
Ric’d VINALL 30 Blacksmith
Jane 30 ditto
Chas R Vinall 11
Willm ditto 9
Emma ditto 7
Thos ditto 25 Joiner
Mary ditto 25
Mary Ann ditto 7mo

Chas, Will & Em all noted as ‘y’ born in this county
all others noted as ‘n’ not born in this county

Richard’s 1856 burial abode just says Limehouse

Not having much luck finding Richard on 1851 census 

Thomas Vinall 1815 occ Joiner born Chatham Kent , Mary & Mary Ann plus three other children
are on the 1851 census in Poplar

[LesleyMWood]

Yes, you have the correct family on the 1841 Census - 7 Mary Street poplar.  I'd quite forgotten that Thomas Vinall and his family were living at the same address.  Of course relationships aren't stated but I think we can assume the two men are either brothers or cousins. 

I have Richard's death certificate.  He died on 3rd April 1856 at 5 Park Street Limehouse.  I too have had no luck finding Richard & Jane on the 1851 Census.  However, Thomas Vinall and family are to be found at 10 Sophia Street Poplar.  Thomas's wife Mary died in 1854.  The 1861 Census revealed Thomas and Jane living together as husband and wife plus 4 children (some his, some hers) and Jane's two grandchildren at 6 Whites Rents, Limehouse.