Author Topic: Joseph Hogg  (Read 2469 times)

Offline horse000

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Re: Joseph Hogg
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 02 July 17 18:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Joger

Many thanks for that information, will need a little time to digest.

Geoff
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Re: Joseph Hogg
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 09 July 17 11:41 BST (UK) »
I found several children born in Valenciennes father Joseph OGG , born in Hamcastle (Joseph could not write , the registrar could not speak English, he wrote the name like he heard it , could be another town) Lincolnshire, the mother being Eufraïde MIROUX born in BRUAI (département du Nord) !
I must check de Death registers to see if the children died or not.I have Eufraîde's age, and birthplace, I'll check her birth and have a look at the marriages register by the way. :

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Re: Joseph Hogg
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 09 July 17 15:04 BST (UK) »
I found the death of Henry son of Joseph Ogg and Eufraïde Miroux in April 1823 (2 years and a half old)
Death of Josephine AnaÏde Ogg 22 march 1829 , death of Seraphine Desirée 7 march 1826. The three in Valenciennes.


Now let's think : how many chances do we have that this couple OGG MIROUX is the right one ? I would say a lot , because of the birthplace of Joseph Hogg. I think that this couple is the HOGG couple . And it means what follows:
Joseh's wife is said to have been born in BRUAI ( there are several BRUAI in the North , I made the bet that it was BRUAY SUR L'ESCAUT , a village near Valenciennes°.
There I found the birth of a girl MIROUX , named PHARAïLDE (a strange name for me, and so is Eufraïde ) born 4 september 1796. No Eufraïde found. Searching a little bit in Google shows Ste -Pharaïlde having made some kind of a miracle in BRUAY sur l'Escaut. Several girls called "Pharaïlde" in the village. We have the explanation for the name (not at all a revolutionary name).


Occupation of Joseph Ogg  on the birth acts of the children :homme de confiance (trustee, right-hand man, no more clues). Age of the father at birth of the children matches with Joseph HOGG's age on the British Censuses. So does Pharaïlde 's age . May be  when Joseph went to the town hall to declare the birth of the children , his english accent made that Pharaïlde was heard like Eufraïde (remember he cannot write, as said in the birth acts) and I can understand that she changed her name and turned it in a simple Mary when living in England.

I am still searching for the birth of Frances , their girl born in France, but I doubt she was really named Frances . And still searching for their marriage.




Offline horse000

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Re: Joseph Hogg
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 09 July 17 18:09 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much, Joger..

This is looking quite hopeful now. Those deaths especially look to be promising.

Given this is about 200 years ago there are some remarkable similarities, and Joseph could't write [nor read possibly] they encounter similar obstacles as we did in England.. 

Is there any way of purchasing certificates, or would you say what you have found so far, contains as much info as is likely to be found?

Once again, many thanks.
Geoff
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


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Re: Joseph Hogg
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 09 July 17 21:06 BST (UK) »
Certificates are free in France. Go and read the personal message I sent you .

Offline horse000

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Re: Joseph Hogg
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 09 July 17 21:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Joger

Thanks for that..

Geoff
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: Joseph Hogg
« Reply #15 on: Monday 10 July 17 12:58 BST (UK) »
Eufraïde is pronounced "eu-fra-eed", it sounds like Ferid ,name of the mother of Henry Hogg baptized 24 october 1820 in Horncastle .
This means that Eufraïde was already living in England in 1820., though born in Bruay France). Then they returned in France where they lived a few years and finally came back (after 1830 since Sophie was born in Valentiennes in 1830 14th september).

Eufraïde became Mary after a religious conversion?  Or the Mary Hogg living with Joseph is another wife , Eufraïde being dead?

Offline horse000

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Re: Joseph Hogg
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 11 July 17 05:14 BST (UK) »
Thanks Joger..

I have now found the bap entry for 1820, this is very helpful as it was thought he was born and and died in France in 1823, even though there were indications he traveled back to England, nothing conclusive until now.

Geoff
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Re: Joseph Hogg
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 11 July 17 06:42 BST (UK) »
Eufraïde is pronounced "eu-fra-eed", it sounds like Ferid ,name of the mother of Henry Hogg baptized 24 october 1820 in Horncastle .
This means that Eufraïde was already living in England in 1820., though born in Bruay France). Then they returned in France where they lived a few years and finally came back (after 1830 since Sophie was born in Valentiennes in 1830 14th september).

Eufraïde became Mary after a religious conversion?  Or the Mary Hogg living with Joseph is another wife , Eufraïde being dead?

What is becoming more clear is the relationship between Joseph Hogg/Ogg and a Eufraide Miroux, finding a marriage would be the icing on the cake..

It is difficult to say whether or not Eufraide is Mary in the English censuses, or as you say, something else occurred, age etc looks right, she may have anglicised the name for easy usage.

In 1833 a letter that looks to be from Eufraide's brother, Henry.. the address is Rue de Lille, Valenciennes, unsure if this is the family home or not, may be useful.. The letter also indicates she may have had sisters, Kate and Francoise.

Geoff

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk