peter harnett 1742 kent

[cathieee]

http://cliveboyce.com/curling3/data_/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_01/P185.html

http://cliveboyce.com/curling3/data_/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_01/P185.html

http://cliveboyce.com/Curling%20of%20Chilton%20NEW/HTMLFiles/HTMLFiles_01/P353.html

these links show what i mean, the top one jumps a whole generation and has no mention of john and mary (kirby) curling, this is what is confusing me, also there seams to be a lot of movement from parts of kent that are nt that close, would farm folk move around that much in those days ??

sorry to be a pest, i am trying myself, i was doing it for over 8 hours last night and a couple today

[cathieee]

just been doing a wiki tree page for peter harnett and when i put in lydden a list came up saying, lydden kent england, but also lydden margate kent england , someone said earlier that there was a place by there also called lydden ??

though my ancestry from peter harnett on is around the deal dover area, so confusing !

[redtonyt]

Not a pest; you just want to get it right.  Nothing wrong in that.

I don't see a problem in either of the links you entered.  If there is any difficulty it may arise from the size of families and the long periods of childbearing experienced in those days.

See out below are the baptism records (as found) for the issue of John Curling and Mercy (Long)
Note, I have simplified all spellings!

1695 Feb 1 Mercy D of John & Mercy CURLING
1697 Jan 27 John S of John & Mercy CURLING
1698 Nov 4 Elizabeth D of John & Mercy CURLING
1700 Nov 2 Daniel S of John & Mercy CURLING
1702 Dec 29 Ann D of John & Mercy CURLING
1705 Mar 25 Alexander S of John & Mercy CURLING
1709 Mar 29 Mary D of John & Mercy CURLING
1711 Mar 20 Mary D of John & Mercy CURLING
1713 May 6 Jane D of John & Mercy CURLING
1715 Jul 1 William S of John & Mercy CURLING

From this, I believe it is probable that Mary Curling (=Peter Harnett) and John Curling (= Mary Kirby) are siblings.

I posted about the Hamlet of Lydden between Margate and Ramsgate but, it is clear that Peter Harnett 1742 was baptised at Lydden near Dover.

The Family was wealthy with both Peters being described as Yeomen so, they may well have owned (or rented) land throughout the county.  Thus, they might be found almost anywhere.  John and Mary Curling started (I have not looked beyond) their family in Barham.

Not sure what else I can say, apart from, if you are still confused go back to first principles.  That is, ignore everything you have found and start again from where you are certain you have it right.  Then follow a simple pedigree line and add siblings etc. later.

Happy head scratching,
Tony

[cathieee]

oh thank you so much for that, never even occurred to me that, that maybe the case, ( mary and john being brother and sister ) makes sense because if john cushing and mary kirby were a generation they would have been only 16 when married and even though i know people married younger in those days most of my family did nt seem to, but thought if that was nt a generation of my family then peter harnett and mary cushing were quite old when they married for then, so could nt win lol

could i ask why you think there would have been 2 mary s only a few years apart without one of them not dying, seems odd

and thanks again

[cathieee]

ps also you said that it was obvious that peter was born by dover and that he was a yoeman, where did you see this info, as i ve never seen any of this info when i look at records, i was on FindMyPast last year and am on ancestry now ??

[redtonyt]

Whoops! 

What did I say about checking the original.  Naughty me 

I only looked at the transcriptions, the baptism in 1711 was for a daughter Marg:t presumably Margaret so, here is the revised version, i.e. my transcription of the original entry,
1711 Mar 20 Marg:t Daught:r of Jno & Mercy CURLINGE

I have looked at the Register of Lydden (near Dover) being a small parish there is more than one baptism to Peter and Mary Harnett on a single page.  Lydden twixt Ramsgate and Margate does not even have chapel let alone a church.

I have seen the word Yeoman mentioned twice.  Once on the Marriage allegation when Peter Harnett married Mary Curling; I looked at this, on Tuesday, in the Archives at Canterbury Cathedral.  Allegations etc. cannot (yet) be found on line.  The second occasion is the Probated Will as found at the National Archives.

Lastly another snippet.  Peter Harnett (died 1818, Lydden) made a Will dated 1817, which was probated in 1819.  A filmed copy of the Will, and its Probate, can be viewed at the Archives within Canterbury Cathedral.  The original will be held at Maidstone.  Not sure how close you are.

I hope I have managed to cover your concerns.

All the best,
Tony 

[cathieee]

thank you so much for all this help, i live in merseyside by liverpool, never been to kent in my life, its a bit of a journey, but im hopefully coming down next summer, so i need to get my research sorted out as im such a muddle head lol
i ve been going over to cork and waterford, well all over through my great great grandfater stephen pilcher moving from ripple kent when her joined the navy, he married over there and is buried in dungarvan waterford, i visit his grave each year as theres no family left over there, 4 of his children moved to usa and canada, im in contact with 2 family members there
im also in contact with stephen pilcher his son born in corks wifes family ( my great nan kate pilcher) i visit them each time i go
one last thing thats eluding me, elizabeth harnett 1772 daughter of peter harnett 1742  married james arnold 1770 of dover, i ve been led to believe that the james arnold family were reasonably well off, i was just wondering how she would have come to marry stephen pilcher, who was baptised stephen pilcher petley 1797 as his mother mary petley was unmarried and it says on his baptism record that he was base born, i ve tried looking into bastardy bonds but st mary the virgin eastry where he was bapt dont go back that far, so i have no idea who his father was, someone did say to me to see if there were any pichers from the same parish as mary petley and there was one the same age as her called thomas pilcher born the same year as her 1778, but no marriage as far as i can see, though there is a marriage for mary petley in ripple to a william kingsford, that was elizabeth arnolds nans maiden name
rambling now lol, anyway stephen pilcher petley except for bapt was always known as stephen pilcher, on marriage, census s and death records and he was afarmer, gardener agriculturist etc on census records, was just wondering about the maybe class difference

but thaks again for all your help, i ve revised that line of my family tree now cathie

[cathieee]

sorry elizabeth arnold 1798 not her mum 1772 marrying stephen pilcher lol

[redtonyt]

I live in St Peters, barely there miles from St Lawrence Church.  I have never been to Liverpool, all round it from North Wales, Stockport, Manchester, Wigan to Southport.  Lived in Kent pretty well all my life but, only found when I started family research that, my mother's parents were from East Kent.

The name Arnold rings a bell (not sure why) but the Kingsfords, one line at least was wealthy.  Mind you it doesn't take long to go from a wealthy family, to be being buried from the Workhouse.  Two generations in one family I am looking at, at the moment.  I will have a look, over the next few days, to see what I can come up with.

Tony