Author Topic: Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s  (Read 1222 times)

Offline Hamish1964

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Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s
« on: Thursday 16 February 17 12:52 GMT (UK) »
Thomas Nicol (Jnr) was born in 1830 in Montrose and was a sailmaker. He married Jane Sharp in 1851 and they had a number of children. In 1854/55 Thomas decided to add an L to the surname making it Nicoll. Jane died in 1892 and Thomas in 1904.

Thomas' father was also called Thomas and was also a sailmaker in Montrose, his mother was called Charlotte. Thomas senior is the person I am interested in. I am struggling to find any records of this Thomas and I am left with one or two possibilities, the strongest one being born in 1808. This Thomas married a Charlotte Garden in 1826, Charlotte would have been 11 years his senior b.1797. The only official document Thomas appears on is Jane Nicol(l) (Sharp) death cert where he is the informant of her death, despite his son still being alive. No census records seem to have him recorded.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated

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Offline ev

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Re: Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 16 February 17 17:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi ,

Is this the family in 1841(FreeCEN) ?
Ferry Street , Montrose , Angus
Charlotte Nicol 43 born Angus
Thomas Nicol 11
Jane Nicol 8
David Nicol 5
Charlotte Nicol 3

All children born outside Census County , from the 1851 Census I think they were born Ferry Port on Craig Fife.

So could this be your Thomas ?
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY83-QFS



ev
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Offline Hamish1964

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Re: Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 16 February 17 18:18 GMT (UK) »
Hi ev

Thanks for the reply

Yes that is them in the 1841 census, but Thomas senior is not shown with them. I have viewed the FerryPort documents before and have the one you mention, clearly if it is them then Charlottes surname was incorrectly recorded, but i have seen that happen a few time already, so not out of the question.

There are two likelys born in FerryPort, but also two likelys born around Montrose and Montrose seems to be the centre for that part of my family for over 200 years.

Thanks again


Offline Hamish1964

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Re: Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 16 February 17 18:25 GMT (UK) »
Sorry ev

just another thing...You mention the 1851 census. I didnt find them on that census on the records I checked on Scotlands People, where did you see it?

Thanks

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Re: Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s
« Reply #4 on: Friday 17 February 17 09:17 GMT (UK) »
Found on FreeCEN -
1851 6 Commerce Street , Montrose , Angus
Charlotte Nicol 55 widow born Craig Angus
Jane Nicol 18 dau. linen reeler b. Ferry Port on Craig Fife
David Nicol 15 son hairdresser master b. Ferry Port on Craig Fife
Charlotte Nicol 13 dau, house servant b. Ferry Port on Craig Fife



ev
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Offline ev

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Re: Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s
« Reply #5 on: Friday 17 February 17 09:32 GMT (UK) »
Not sure if you have seen these deaths on SP(age a little out) -
Charlotte Nichol age 72 , 1874 , Montrose Angus , 312/10.
Charlotte Gardyne age 72 , 1874 , Montrose Angus , 312/10.



ev
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Offline Hamish1964

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Re: Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s
« Reply #6 on: Friday 17 February 17 15:57 GMT (UK) »
Thanks ev

That's excellent will give that all a look.

I had Charlotte still alive at 73 yrs, co- habiting with a widower so will double check that.

Really appreciate your help

Offline Hamish1964

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Re: Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 21 February 17 08:15 GMT (UK) »
Unfortunately seem to being going round in circles on this.

Thomas Nicol(Snr) married Charlotte Garden in 1826, in Craig Nr Montrose. They then had a child called Jessie in 1827, also in Craig. It then appears that the family must have moved to Ferry Port on Craig where Thomas (Jnr)1830, Jane 1833, David1836 and Charlotte 1838 were born. The 1841 Census shows them back in Montrose, but only the mother Charlotte and the four younger children are shown. Thomas (Snr) and Jessie do not appear. I am guessing, but it seems likely that Jessie died young. In the 1851 census the mother Charlotte is shown as a widow. Again guessing, but it may be that Thomas (Snr) died while they were living in Ferry Port and after his death the family moved back to Montrose. The problem is I have no definitive for Thomas (Snr) either by birth or death. The most likely for Thomas (Snr) was born in 1808 to James Nicol and Margaret Burnett.

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Re: Thomas Nicol - Sailmaker in Montrose during 1800s
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 22 February 17 09:02 GMT (UK) »
I don't think it is very likely that Thomas born in 1808 is the one who married in 1826.

First, it is extremely unusual for men to marry at age 18. Thomas must have been apprenticed to a sailmaker to learn his trade, and until he had completed his apprenticeship and established himself he would hardly have been able to support a wife and family.

Second, none of Thomas' family were named either James or Margaret. If Thomas and Charlotte followed the naming tradition, his parents' names would have been Thomas and Jane, and Charlotte's would have been David and Jessie/Janet. However you can't be absolutely certain of this because of the missing information.

The 1841 census lists Charlotte as 43. So if her age in that census is accurate she would have been born in 1796/1797. The 1851 census lists Charlotte as aged 55 and born in Craig. So if her age in that census is accurate, she would have been born in 1795/1796. A Charlotte Garden was born in Craig on 20 March 1797 and would have been 44 on census day 1841 and 54 on census day 1851. The parents of this Charlotte Garden were David Garden and Ann Kinnear. Have you found a death certificate for Charlotte? (She isn't the one who died in Montrose in 1868, aged 70. That one was born in St Cyrus in (allegedly) 1793, married John Milne in St Cyrus on 26 November 1819, and there is gravestone in Montrose commemorating her and her husband.)

I see that Thomas Jr was born on 26 January and baptised on 14 February 1830 in Ferry Port on Craig, mother's name given as Charolette Gairns.

Unfortunately the baptisms of Jane (1832/33), David (1835/36) and Charlotte (1837/38) don't seem to be in the index at Scotland's People or anywhere else reliable. So it's not possible to be 100% certain there are no missing children who died in infancy.

There is a Thomas Nicoll, son of Thomas Nicoll and Jean Chalmers, baptised in Dundee in 1789. Could this be your Thomas, perhaps? He would have been 37 in 1826, which is on the old side to be getting married for the first time, but maybe it wasn't a first marriage? A marriage at 37 is still more likely than at 18.

Quote
The only official document Thomas appears on is Jane Nicol(l) (Sharp) death cert where he is the informant of her death, despite his son still being alive.
But according to the census he had died by 1851, so he could not possibly have signed a death certificate in 1892.

Quote
Charlotte Nichol age 72 , 1874 , Montrose Angus , 312/10.
Charlotte Gardyne age 72 , 1874 , Montrose Angus , 312/10
Quote
I had Charlotte still alive at 73 yrs, co- habiting with a widower so will double check that.
Remember that Charlotte should have had a better idea of her own age than whoever registered her death.

Quote
In 1854/55 Thomas decided to add an L to the surname making it Nicoll.
Actually, he probably didn't. Spelling was a very inexact science - your name was spelled however the person writing it down thought it should be spelled. Note that in Jessie's baptism is appears as Nichol, even though the marriage and the baptism of Thomas Jr both use Nicol. Don't try to read anything into spelling.
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