Author Topic: Merchant Seamen BT 113 record/need help deciphering  (Read 1442 times)

Offline tamarakel

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Merchant Seamen BT 113 record/need help deciphering
« on: Thursday 16 February 17 13:45 GMT (UK) »
I would like to know which ports he was in/out of in order to try to figure out the ship he was on..thank you for your help! I also have a few more records I need help with..the one that says he was on the ship reliance..what year would that be? and where?
Kelly, Weatherhead, Wagner, Russell, Smiles (Smailes)

Offline seaweed

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Re: Merchant Seamen BT 113 record/need help deciphering
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 16 February 17 14:55 GMT (UK) »
By and large , he served on Newcastle on Tyne registered vessels.
If we take an example of the first and only entry for 1845. He sailed as Cook on the vessel with the port rotation number 109 from the port of Newcastle, port number 75. departing Dec 1845.
No "Key" exsists to link port rotation numbers to the name of an individual ship. Other than trawl through the Crew Agreements in BT 98. There is no simple way of finding out. Note, vessels who's home port was North or South Shields were registered in Newcastle on Tyne.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=newcastle&_cr=bt98&_dss=range&_sd=1845&_ed=1845&_ro=any&_st=adv

You would need to visit Kew to view these records.
Further note. Start with the last known year and work backwards. Crew Agreements may give names of previous ship.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022

Offline tamarakel

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Re: Merchant Seamen BT 113 record/need help deciphering
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 16 February 17 15:03 GMT (UK) »
By and large , he served on Newcastle on Tyne registered vessels.
If we take an example of the first and only entry for 1845. He sailed as Cook on the vessel with the port rotation number 109 from the port of Newcastle, port number 75. departing Dec 1845.
No "Key" exsists to link port rotation numbers to the name of an individual ship. Other than trawl through the Crew Agreements in BT 98. There is no simple way of finding out. Note, vessels who's home port was North or South Shields were registered in Newcastle on Tyne up to 1846?

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=newcastle&_cr=bt98&_dss=range&_sd=1845&_ed=1845&_ro=any&_st=adv

You would need to visit Kew to view these records.

@seaweed, THANK YOU SO MUCH! I was hoping you would be the one to reply as you seem to be the expert in these records. I am located in Canada so I would be unable to visit Kew but I will look at getting the records from them. Also, I hope it is ok if I ask another question, if he was indentured onto a vessel when he was 14 (I can add the record if you want to see), would this be a navy vessel and would he have been forced or would his father have received money? how did this work? And are there any books or documents that you suggest that talk about ship records?
Kelly, Weatherhead, Wagner, Russell, Smiles (Smailes)

Offline seaweed

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Re: Merchant Seamen BT 113 record/need help deciphering
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 16 February 17 16:42 GMT (UK) »
 I am afraid that there are just too many Crew Agreements for  you to get the records from them. You would need to employ a professional researcher. TNA will give you a list but these people don't come cheap.
 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/paying-for-research/
If you look closely at his seamans "Ticket" You will see that he had no Royal Navy records. I doubt he was forced or pressed other than the need to sustain oneself. I doubt his father paid for or received any kind of monetary remunition.

Two books for you both available from TNA bookshop.
 TRACING YOUR MERCHANT NAVY ANCESTORS by Simon Wills, Pen and Sword Books, ISBN978 1 84884 651 7
MY ANCESTOR WAS A MERCHANT SEAMAN by Christopher T Watts and  Michael J Watts,  Society of Genealogists ISBN 10 1 903462 51 7

In answer to your question re RELIANCE Looks like he was a seaman  around 20/March/1843 on board the Arbroth registered vessel  RELIANCE built in 1842 208 tons owned by her captain J Cargill and others.
Around 4/April/1844 seems, he was a seaman on board the Sunderland registered vessel HOUGHTON LE SPRING built Sunderland 1839 283 tons owned and captained by R Brown.

Merchant Seafaring by it's very nature was and still is a dangerous and precarious occupation. It is not an absolute science. Therefor researching Merchant Seamen, who for the most part were suspicious of authority and regulation, doesn't come easily. Take nothing as read and always try to obtain at least two original sources.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022


Offline tamarakel

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Re: Merchant Seamen BT 113 record/need help deciphering
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 15 March 17 11:56 GMT (UK) »
I am afraid that there are just too many Crew Agreements for  you to get the records from them. You would need to employ a professional researcher. TNA will give you a list but these people don't come cheap.
 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/paying-for-research/
If you look closely at his seamans "Ticket" You will see that he had no Royal Navy records. I doubt he was forced or pressed other than the need to sustain oneself. I doubt his father paid for or received any kind of monetary remunition.

Two books for you both available from TNA bookshop.
 TRACING YOUR MERCHANT NAVY ANCESTORS by Simon Wills, Pen and Sword Books, ISBN978 1 84884 651 7
MY ANCESTOR WAS A MERCHANT SEAMAN by Christopher T Watts and  Michael J Watts,  Society of Genealogists ISBN 10 1 903462 51 7

In answer to your question re RELIANCE Looks like he was a seaman  around 20/March/1843 on board the Arbroth registered vessel  RELIANCE built in 1842 208 tons owned by her captain J Cargill and others.
Around 4/April/1844 seems, he was a seaman on board the Sunderland registered vessel HOUGHTON LE SPRING built Sunderland 1839 283 tons owned and captained by R Brown.

Merchant Seafaring by it's very nature was and still is a dangerous and precarious occupation. It is not an absolute science. Therefor researching Merchant Seamen, who for the most part were suspicious of authority and regulation, doesn't come easily. Take nothing as read and always try to obtain at least two original sources.

@seaweed, THANK YOU SO MUCH for the info and for taking the time to give me the info, it is much appreciated!
Kelly, Weatherhead, Wagner, Russell, Smiles (Smailes)

Offline seaweed

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Re: Merchant Seamen BT 113 record/need help deciphering
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 16 March 17 15:18 GMT (UK) »
 I will be visiting the National Archives next Tuesday 21/March/2017. Time permitting I will endeavour to look at the relevent Crew Agreements of HOUGHTON LE SPRING and RELIANCE. If for nothing else, to make sure I am reading the Seaman's Ticket correctly
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022