Author Topic: Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897  (Read 259 times)

Offline Nick_Ips

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Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897
« on: Friday 17 February 17 12:29 GMT (UK) »

I'm trying to locate the death and burial of Robert Chapman born around 1811 in either Hickling or Catfield (depends on source).

Robert lived in Hickling from 1831 through to 1891 (at least) and was married Mary Ann TURNER 07-02-1831.

Mary Ann died in 1890 and was buried 11-11-1890 in Hickling. One of their sons Robert (b.1843) died in 1893 and was buried at Hickling on 02-05-1893. This Robert's death is referred to in the extracts of the Waxham Deanery Monthly Magazine on the Hickling village history website - he suffered from fits and was cared for by the elderly Robert (Snr).

The only likely death I've found for Robert (senior) is in the 3rd quarter of 1897 aged 86. However, there is no matching record for Robert in the Hickling burial register. I've checked on FreeReg and there are no records for the burial of a Robert Chapman in 1897. I've also checked the graveyard surveys for Hickling with no luck, but then there is no memorial for Mary Ann or Robert (Jnr) either.

Hickling is the logical burial place - he lived there for years, his wife and child(ren) are buried there. The vicar at the time was Arthur A T Crosse - who appears to have been a remarkably diligent man - and forgetting to record the burial of a long-standing member of the parish would seem to be completely out of character.

So any ideas what happened to Robert - him not being buried at Hickling seems so unlikely, but that is what the evidence is pointing to.

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Offline clalouha

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Re: Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897
« Reply #1 on: Friday 17 February 17 16:01 GMT (UK) »
There is a Robert Chapman
died 1897
Jul-Aug-Sept
Smallburgh
norfolk
Vol 4b
page 39

Catfiled is ( was) in the Smallburgh registraton district

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Offline The Yokel

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Re: Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897
« Reply #2 on: Friday 17 February 17 16:22 GMT (UK) »
No burial, but have his baptism in Catfield 1812

 from the 1811 on left page go across to the right Robert, John & Ann Chapman, Bell, July 11

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Offline Nick_Ips

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Re: Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897
« Reply #3 on: Friday 17 February 17 16:24 GMT (UK) »
Thank you clalouha  :)

That death is the one I'd found, what I'm trying to do is to confirm the death is for the Robert Chapman I'm interested in. The Smallburgh RD does include Catfield and Hickling.

The apparent absence of a burial in Hicking to match the death is what concerns me. The 1897 death could be for a different Robert Chapman - and the absence of a Hickling burial points quite strongly towards that being the case.

Offline Nick_Ips

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Re: Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897
« Reply #4 on: Friday 17 February 17 16:35 GMT (UK) »

Many thanks Yokel, I'd seen the baptism on FreeReg and felt that was the most likely subject to resolving the Hickling/Catfield birthplace issue on the different census records.

Hopefully a burial will turn up somewhere. A copy of the 1897 death certificate would be the alternative, but its a bit of a long shot to gamble the certificate cost on!

Offline jonw65

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Re: Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 21 February 17 12:06 GMT (UK) »
In 1891 he does seem to be the only Robert Chapman of that sort of age in Smallburgh RD
In fact he may be the oldest Robert Chapman in Norfolk.
I wondered if he might have died in the Smallburgh workhouse/infirmary.
However, the Robert Chapman who died in Smallburgh in 1897 seems to have died in the appropriate sub district for Hickling (Ludham)
Page 39 in volume 4b is the first page of Smallburgh deaths in Sep 1897. Ten names, with apparently only five indexed on page 40 (presumably end of sub district)
(Same thing with Mary Ann Chapman in Dec 1890 and Robert junior in June 1893, both indexed on the first page for Smallburgh in those quarters)
Looking at the others on page 39 in Sep 1897, burials for eight of them can be found in the parish registers online.
Emma Trorey, age 74, buried 20 July, Hickling
Henry Ready, 88, buried 22 July, Waxham, of Gt Waxham Rectory (Hickling) - he was the Rector
John Beevor, 62, buried 27 July, Potter Heigham (abode Catfield)
Caroline Dack, 60, buried 13 Aug, Stalham (abode Catfield, late Stalham)

Four were buried in Ludham
Mary Rouse, 38, buried 7 July
John Knights, 73, buried 12 July
Elizabeth Crane, 63, buried 22 July
William Grapes, 69, buried 19 August

So it looks like it ought to be your Robert who died in Sep qtr 1897, either in Hickling or somewhere very nearby indeed. The absence of a burial record is strange!
John

Offline Nick_Ips

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Re: Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 21 February 17 16:02 GMT (UK) »

Thanks Jon. It is a strange one. I was trying to think over the weekend what else might have meant he wasn't buried in Hickling.

Apart from being buried in a neighbouring (not yet indexed) parish (which still seems odd if his family are at Hickling) some of the options could be cremation, donation to science, body not available for burial.

It seems a bit too early for cremation to be likely, especially for someone who spent their life in a rural area. For similar reasons I don't think body donation was that likely either.

Hickling is in close proximity to lots of water (various broads and the sea) so the possibility of a drowning without the body being found cannot be ruled out.

The more I think about it the more inclined I am to wait for the GRO to do lower cost pdf copies of register entries and get hold of this one. I'm far too curious now to just let it go!

Offline clalouha

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Re: Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 22 February 17 10:26 GMT (UK) »
Thought I'd just add to what Jon said I'm inclined to think that it is your Robert dying in 1897  but the absence of a burial record is weird as their son Samuel is also buried in Hickling, I checked Sutton burials and Potter Heigham he's not there either, so I wondered if there was any kind of epidemic recorded I know that there is a separate 'cholera' cemetery in Upton upon Severn (near me) so wondered if something like that had happened to your Robert?
The other consideration is did he die whilst away from home? and where did all his children end up, could he have been visiting them, or in fact moved there after Mary Ann and Robert junior died?
It's annoying when you can't find people, when you know they definitely existed! I can't find a whole branch of mine!


Online dawnsh

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Re: Burial of Robert CHAPMAN in 1897
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 22 February 17 10:51 GMT (UK) »
If he died in the workhouse and his body was not claimed by family or friends, he would have been buried with the other poor unfortunates who died in the workhouse.

Do you know where workhouse burials took place?
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Sherry-Paddington & Marylebone,
Longhurst-Ealing & Capel, Abinger, Ewhurst & Ockley,
Chandler-Chelsea