Catherine (Cassie) Jane Elias short-lived emigration from Wales to USA

[cardinalcanary]

Hello

I am looking for help to find out what happened to my great grandmother Catherine Jane Elias when her mother took her to the USA when she was a child. She only seems to have been in the US for a few days/weeks before returning to Wales. Other chatters on here have helped me find her trip out but no-one can find her coming back. The story so far is to be found here.... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=761031.0

Kay99 found the following info...


Found them I think on New York Passenger Lists - Mary Hannah Elias  Age 25  Arrival New York 4 Oct 1880 on Ship Arizona  which departed from Liverpool   Also with her were daughters Hannah age 5 and Catherine age 3. 

 Possibly not the same family but on the 1881 USA census there is a Thomas Elias born Wales 1850 and listed as married working as a coal miner in Ohio https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YBG-RQQ?mode=g&i=20&cc=1417683

On the GRO Birth Index in addition to birth of Catherine Jane Elias in 1875 with mothers maiden name Harris also lists two more births in the Newport Reg District
Hannah Elias March Qtr 1874 Newport  Vol 11A  Page 249
Mary Ann Elias June Qtr 1878 Newport  Vol 11A  Page 245

Free BMD lists the possible death of a Mary Ann Elias Age 0 March Qtr 1879  Newport Vol 11a    Page173

When did Cassie come back to the UK and who did she travel back with?

Thank-you

[shellyesq]

There is no 1881 census in the US - it was 1880.  Since the census date was 1 Jun. 1880, the people travelling in Oct. 1880 would have missed it.

If you want to see that actual passenger list, it is available here - https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVPN-FMB4

[cardinalcanary]

Thanks Shelly

I think the Ohio census in June 1880 showing Thomas Elias, a Welsh Miner in Monroe Township, Carroll County is still plausibe. His wife Mary Hannah and her young children Hannah and Catherine (Cassie) travel to New York in October 1880.

Based on the census and travel records, Thomas was born around 1850 and Mary Hannah was born around 1855.

The Welsh census of 1871 shows a Mary Hannah Harris aged 16 being visted by a Thomas Elias aged 20. That would make Mary's DOB around 1855 (tick) and Thomas being born around 1851 (close).

Assuming this is all correct; what would bring a Welsh miner and his young family to Ohio in 1880?

There are several miners on the same census page.

I wonder if there is any evidence of the family being in Ohio together. Is there a newspaper record of a child dying in a fire after her nightdress caught fire perhaps?

When did the family return to the UK?

Was the child that died (Hannah Elias aged about 5) buried in Ohio?

Lots of questions that I would love to know the answers to.

[shellyesq]

Presumably, he would have come to Ohio for a mining job.  There is also a John Elias from Wales on the same page as Thomas, so maybe that was a relative.

Ohio didn't consistently keep vital records until 1908, so I wouldn't have high hopes for finding much before then.

I don't see any likely matches for them in incoming passenger lists.

[cardinalcanary]

Thanks Shelly

Just looking up coal mining in the USA and see that Ohio was the 3rd largest producer in 1889.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining_in_the_United_States

Interesting to see that Pennsylvania was the biggest producer by some distance. Pennsylvania was where family legend thought that the Elias's went to as it is traditionally the place where the Welsh emigrated to.

[Lisa in California]

Have you tried to find out more about the Davis families?  Could there be some connection between the Davis and Elias families?  Or, were the Elias men (perhaps unrelated to each other since not all were apparently born in Wales) simply boarders of unrelated Davis men.

1880 Monroe (Village of Dell Roy), Carroll Co, OH
John Elias, age 45, coal miner, born Wales
He was living with John B. Davis and his family.  Davis was age 40, coal miner, born Wales

Thomas Elias, age 30, coal miner, born Wales
Joseph Elias, age 30, coal miner, born England   
They were living with David T? Davis and his family.  Davis was age 65, keep boarding house, born England 
Levina, David's wife, age 43, keeping house, born Ohio
Elias M Davis, David's son, born 22 Sept, born Ohio

Could Elias M Davis have been named after the Elias men?   

This could be a wild goose chase, but I thought I would mention it. 

[Lisa in California]

Update:  According to one family tree, David Thomas Davies was born in England and his son, John Berwyn Davies was born in Denbigshire, Wales.  So, perhaps the Davies/Davis family did not previously know the Elias family/families in Wales.

Update, again:  According to the family tree, John B's daughter was born Methry Tydfil, which appears to be closer to Newport than Denbigshire.  I was hoping the Davis/Davies family might have known Elias when they were in Wales, but they probably didn't know each other.

[Lisa in California]

A bit about Monroe and Dellroy (PDF file) in case you are curious about the area
http://carrollcountyhistoricalsociety.com/townships/Monroe/MonroeTownship.pdf

[cardinalcanary]

Hi Lisa

Thanks for your help. Interestingly I have found a 4th/5th cousin through dna and we are trying to find how we are related. Harris is a common ancestor name for both of us. I'm tracing our trees back to 4ggp to see if our trees link up at a Harris around 1800 either in Wales or the USA.

Im thinking that Thomas Elias might have heard about opportunities in the USA from one of Mary Hannah's relations who had already moved out there.