Author Topic: Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942  (Read 2242 times)

Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942
« on: Tuesday 21 February 17 13:46 GMT (UK) »
Thanks to the expert input given by Seaweed and cpercival on another thread before Christmas, I have been able to stumble my way to the convoy that my man travelled on en route to Suez in 1942.
His record says embarked at Gourock on 27 July, arrived Durban 30 Aug 42.  The six vessels making up WS21 leaving on 29 July and arriving Durban 30 Aug fit perfectly.

 Now the 640000 dollar question.  His record identifies the vessel on which he sailed only as E6,  His unit was 226 Coast Battery Royal Artillery.  Can the real experts identify which vessel was E6?

maxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline cpercival

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 22 February 17 16:52 GMT (UK) »
Hi MaxD

I have quite a bit of background on WS21 but need a bit of time to study it in detail.  I will get around to it in the next few days.  E6 is no real help.  I think it was an admin designation for convoy positioning.  My speculation is that it was probably referring to column E, ship number six in the line.  I am not aware that any documentary link with a ship's name outlived the sailing of the convoy.  I think we will have to fall back on the sort of process of elimination we did on the previous project and I am game to try.  Have you tried the relevant war diary?  I got lucky with my Dad's convoy with 42RTR in 1941 where their ship's name was in the war diary but I know it was not always the case.  Nevertheless leave WS21 with me and I will get back on line when I have had a chance to study the records.  I do know that some of this convoy loaded in Liverpool and maybe only a couple loaded in Glasgow due to a shortage of shipping in the right places and several berths in Glasgow being occupied by damaged ships under repair, so that may give us a start.

Back soon

Clive

Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 22 February 17 17:11 GMT (UK) »
Brief reply Clive.  The war diary doesn't start till October.  I haven't looked at it but they sunned themselves in Durban for a bit and then sailed from there independently on 19 September in City of Paris so I'd say it was unlikely that the diary would refer back to the start of the journey.

As ever, grateful for your interest, no rush.

maxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline seaweed

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,363
  • I'll see you one day in Fiddlers Green.
    • View Profile
Re: Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 23 February 17 19:11 GMT (UK) »
Max,
Could you confirm which vessels you have as being part of convoy WS21. Certain internet sources give ALMANZORA as part of this convoy. This vessel was not part of WS21. She was being repaired at Glasgow after collision damage  from the 14/July/1942 until finally sailing from the Clyde 28/August/1942
The others I have are

AORANGI
CIRCASIA
LARGS BAY
NARKUNDA
TAMAROA

I have some information on four of these five vessels and I think you are correct that your man probably transhipped in Durban. Can confirm CITY OF PARIS sailed Durban 19/Sept/1942, arrived
Aden 5/Oct/1942, sailed 6/Oct/1942, arrived Suez 11/Oct/1942 sailed 13/Oct/1942.
Source TNA pieces MT40/142-MT40/149.

regards SW
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022


Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 23 February 17 19:39 GMT (UK) »
My man embarked Gourock so I've ignored those vessels that joined at Liverpool or Bristol.  Otherwise, from convoyweb:
Aorongi
Circassia
Largs Bay
Narkunda
Tamaroa

His record is clear about completing from Durban with City of Paris, dates all cross check.

maxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline seaweed

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,363
  • I'll see you one day in Fiddlers Green.
    • View Profile
Re: Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942
« Reply #5 on: Friday 24 February 17 10:25 GMT (UK) »
OK. We are singing from the same sheet but you did say in your first post "The six vessels making up WS21 leaving on 29 July and arriving Durban 30 Aug fit perfectly." This statement confused me somewhat.
I think we can take AORONGI out of the equation. Although she did depart Glasgow on the 29/July/1942 she did not call at Durban on her outward passage, she departed Cape Town on 30/Aug/1942 arrived Suez, via Aden 20/Sept/1942.
Let us see if CP concurs. More later.

SW
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022

Offline MaxD

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 8,056
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942
« Reply #6 on: Friday 24 February 17 11:11 GMT (UK) »
Sorry to mislead initially, looking at my notes, I counted in one of the Liverpool vessels when I made it six.

Humble pie,

maxD
I am Zoe Northeast, granddaughter of Maximilian Double.
 
It is with great difficulty I share with you that in the early hours of 07 August 2021, Maximilian passed away unexpectedly but peacefully.

With deep sadness,
Zoe



Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline cpercival

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942
« Reply #7 on: Friday 24 February 17 11:47 GMT (UK) »
I agree with SW and MaxD on the candidates we have and it is evident that AORANGI can be discounted due to her schedule.  I do have one snippet to add to the debate.  My earlier post about the shortage of berths in Glasgow at this time was a little in error as it was not due to occupation by damaged vessels under repair but the fact that many berths were taken up by fast transports loading for 'Operation Pedestal', the mission to relieve Malta, which sailed 3 days behind WS21.  However that is an aside.  What may be useful to know is that only AORANGI and LARGS BAY loaded from alongside in Glasgow due to the overcrowding above.  NARKUNDA, CIRCASSIA and TAMAROA all loaded from tenders in the Clyde anchorage.  Do we know any more detail about our subject's boarding procedure?  If he boarded at a quayside berth this leaves LARGS BAY as our only candidate.

CP

Offline seaweed

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,363
  • I'll see you one day in Fiddlers Green.
    • View Profile
Re: Convoy WS21 from the Clyde 29 July 1942
« Reply #8 on: Friday 24 February 17 12:11 GMT (UK) »
Apart from NARKUNDA which has no records in the MT40 series due to the fact she was sunk later in the war, I can concur with CP's findings.
LARGS BAY loaded in Glasgow, TAMAROA Clyde, CIRCASSIA Greenock. all sailed on 29/July/1942 and Arrived Durban 30/Aug/1942.
My guess at this stage CIRCASSIA.

SW
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022