Averse to marriage and registering births ?

[MonicaL]

 

Sorry, meant to post this on the other Scottish post. I still had both tabs open from last night....

I will repost this info now there to keep it all together.

Monica

[brigidmac]

Cautionary tale ; Finding Margaret LOVE
complicated name changes  no obvious census trail to follow due to names changing between censuses but thanks to Monicas sleuthing and some help from Ancestry i can now say
 
Elizabeth (isabella ) Birrell b about 1800 in Monkland
1st marriage 1830 to James Love
children David ,Margaret  and James
2nd husban   1844 William Manners (Mathers )on some transcriptions
 
Margaret Love born 1838
 1841 aged 7 living with Grandmother Margaret Sheddin 70 and her siblings all parish paupers

1861  she is Margaret Manners living with step father William Mathers?
her daughters Maggie Muir 4 and isabella lurtch

after birth of son john Love 1862 with James love

1871 census  Margaret Love aged 35 is listed as unmarried
with brother james Love 33
         Maggie Love 14 Isabella Love and john Love
 all other censuses Margaret + maggie use surname Love
1895 son Johns marriage ..recorded as son of Margaret Love no father
 
Death Cert
age 75 in 1915 ..father James Birrel coal miner deceased
widow of John Love coal minor .
..registered by son John Love

I thought this was the death cert of her daughter Maggie Love born 1857
but she died 1927 aged 70 also in the lightburn cottages where her mother had lived .

[brigidmac]

Now ive found some LOVE dna matches i thought Id try to summarise  our findings so far

maggie love b 1857 was my grandmothers grandmother
I her story is starting to make sense & i may have found descendants of her sister isabelle LOVE b1860 & brother john love b1863

Their mother was Margaret b abt 1836 tho in some censuses rounded up to 1840

 Margaret  was never married
is listed as Margaret LOVE on daughters births


1861she is listed Margaret MAnners stepdaughter to her mother Elizabeth/ Isabelle Birrell .s 2nd husband
Her daughters are down as grandchildren: MargaretMUIR aged 4 and isabellaLUTCh 8 mths
 after having john in 1863 she reverts to the name of LOVE.

In 1871 she is listed as head of household
Unmarried aged 35 bleach worker
All 3 children now have Love surname .

There is a james LOVE collier aged 33 b glasgow listed as brother

This would fit with 1841 census margaret LOVE aged 7 with brothers james aged 5 and david aged 9
all living with their 70 year old grandmother Margaret SHEDDIN
All were paupers of the parish of Eastmuir Shettleston

In 1851 margaret love aged 17  may be in service
With Willlium.Muir a servant father of her daughter Maggie .

1891 and on several electoral rolls margaret love is an ag lab
Son john  a coalminer aged 24 .
They live at lightburn

Hope that is clear ..but ithink ive posted it on wrong thread .

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=756853.0

[rossko57]

I wouldn't rule out brother and sister posing as man and wife, perhaps innocently after outsiders have made assumptions, perhaps worse.

I have one such that came to court at the Old Bailey, and yes there was offspring.  I think the pregnancy brought on disaster.   She had a marriage and children beforehand too.  I have no idea what happened to her first husband - I  often wonder if they "got rid of him".   Note that in England it wasn't a crime before 1904, they were unlucky and got caught just a couple of years later.  Very frowned upon though, of course.

[brigidmac]

Yes the thought had occurred to me...

Shock proof these days ...

I was surprised so.many people think cousi s shouldnt marry

Although we cant accept incest ..ancient Egyptian kings bieved it enhanced tbeir noble ood to marry sisters

But i dont want to cast aspersions on our lovely LOVE. s prefer to think we have inherited a tende cy not to marry or obey laws and conventions
I talk about my ex husbands but only ever had 1 ceremony and that was just a party

[brigidmac]

Am in touch with some disant cousins thru dna and these posts
I made some recordings of my aunt aged 92 talking about life in 1930.s Cambuslang and Glasgow

Have played some of them on local community radiio station ..tho im.in leicester .i would live to shate them.on here but dont know if its possible to add audio clips

[Forfarian]

Thanks Stan ..the 1st thing I noticed about the registrations was the cost

Those regulations quoted by Stan were for England and Wales. They are not relevant to registration in Scotland.

Registration in Scotland was provided for by the Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages (Scotland) Act, 1854.

The significant points of difference between registration in Scotland and registration in England and Wales are that in Scotland

- Registration did not start in Scotland until 1 January 1855
- Registration was compulsory from the outset.
- Births had to be registered within 21 days.
- There was no fee for registering a birth or death, but there were (and are) fines for late registration and fees for other services including providing additional copies of certificates. (Fees were charged for registering marriages, on the grounds that no-one could choose not to be born or not to die, but that you could choose whether or not to marry.)
- Scottish certificates were and are more informative than English and Welsh ones

See https://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/socialpolitical/research/economicsocialhistory/historymedicine/scottishwayofbirthanddeath/introduction/ and
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/birth-death-and-marriage-records/statutory-registers-of-births-deaths-and-marriages

[brigidmac]

Update
A few more DNA matches have shown up

The latest is only 8cm..The match is in USA from a much younger generation and with surname LOVE  .

We haven't joined the dots yet but I've shared this story I the hope that it will help

[jackella]

There is a mention that Margaret was on electoral registers in Lightburn, does that indicate that she must have been well off as few if any women had the vote at the time.