Lookup please ... Bristol marriage of John Warren, shoemaker and Margaret Burke

[Janelle]

Hello Bristol,

In my tree there is a cousin John WARREN born in Churchstanton, Somerset/Devon, baptised 8 Nov 1829, son of William and Mary.

1851 census ...
John is a visitor with Edwards family, shoemakers, Silver Street, Bridgwater

1861 census ...
John is in Churchinford, a village in his original parish of Churchstanton, with wife MARGARET aged 29 and 2 daughters, Jane, 4 and Mary A aged 1.
Margaret, Jane and Mary A are all enumerated as born in Bristol, Glos

I can find baptisms for Mary Jane 1857 and Mary Ann 1860, dau of John and Margaret Warren, at Bristol St Mary Redcliffe, which is why I am searching for a marriage.
These 2 girls are on the GRO birth index with mmn as BURKE.

My really big problem is that on 26 Oct 1863 John, bachelor shoemaker, is somehow free of Margaret because he marries his 2nd cousin Charlotte Honor Quick, at Churchstanton. I have a copy downloaded from Anc*y.

John seems an unlucky lad, misplacing Marg, Jane and Mary and that C H is never with him, either. In 1871 he is with his brother and 1881 with his widowed mum.
While in 1871 C H goes off to Birmingham, with their dau Catherine aged 3, to her recently widowed brother in law Charles French. And in 1881 C H is with her mum Ann Quick in Milverton, Somerset.

These is a possible death for John 1st qtr 1884 Taunton reg district, which covers Churchstanton.

Margaret Burke can be seen 1841 and 1851 in Bristol as dau of John Burke with lots of siblings, or another Marg in 1851 a lodger charwoman, born Bedminster, Glos.

Am I mixing cousin John Warren with John and Marg Warren of Bristol?

Do I have to shop for birth certificates of Jane and Mary A to solve this?

Salute,

Janelle

[KGarrad]

There is a new facility on the GRO Index Searches - they show Mother's Maiden Name for nearly all births from 1837!

You have to register, but otherwise it's free.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates

Finding out what the mother's maiden name was will help you in a search for a likely marriage?

[Gadget]

I can find baptisms for Mary Jane 1857 and Mary Ann 1860, dau of John and Margaret Warren, at Bristol St Mary Redcliffe, which is why I am searching for a marriage.
These 2 girls are on the GRO birth index with mmn as BURKE.
 

Very strange, I've followed John through the censuses that you mention. I don't see a marriage between a Warren and a Burke (with alternatives)*. Your John doesn't seem to have moved far away from his birthplace.

Do you have him in 1841? I have a  John Warren, aged 10, staying with a John Warren, aged 65, yeoman, in Ashcott, Bridgewater but I'm thinking that that might be the cousin you refer to - HO107/964/1/20/10

You don't mention Margaret, Jane and Mary Ann  after 1861 - have you found any of  them in later censuses - or a death for Margaret?

* the nearest that I've found is a Margaret Bork m a Jeremiah Hern, Bristol TM, 26 May 1856 but  really not sure that that's a good fit.  (Father's name ~ William)


Added - so far, nothing on Passenger lists 

[Janelle]

Thankyou Gadget, you are finding/seeing what I see.

So apart from being at Bridgwater which is close to Bristol in 1851, I don't have real proof that it's my cousin john fathering 2 children with Margaret in Bristol, its the family being at Churchingford in 1861 that is the only time so far that they are together.

Finding the women in later census is what is needed.

Salute
Janelle

[Janelle]

  and researching the 2 Margarets in Bristol as well as any John Warrens there.

Familysearch and  anc* have the same baptism info, don't they always. I thought just finding the maiden names on the GRO index would make things easier but I'm no closer, haha

Salute
Janelle

[celiag41]

Hi!
I am having the same problem with John Warren. I can't find any trace of him marrying
Margaret.( Do you know what happened to Margaret and the children after 1861? ) My
great grandfather was John's younger brother Mark and I was interested in finding out what
happened to his brothers and sisters.  I haven't had any luck with the oldest sister Mary Ann
 b 1823 (after she was a dairymaid for her grandfather in 1841) or with brother William b.1835
after the 1871 census, though you are maybe not interested in them.
Good luck with your hunt,
CG

[celiag41]

Hi Janelle

I have tracked down the information I wanted about Mary Ann and William Warren (who was
knocked down and killed by a traction engine)  but I also found out what happened to John.
According to the Taunton Courier and Advertiser of 13th February 1884, John Warren (54)
died at Marle Pit Farm, Churchstanton,  after upwards of nine years' severe illness. Charlotte
was with her mother Ann Quick in Milverton in 1881 but I can't find anything about her after that.
CG

[Janelle]

Hello CG !!

Apologies for the silence. I have not been looking at Rootschat the last week.

Your great grandfather was Mark Warren b 1843, married Elizabeth Valentine in 1866 at Churchstanton, and died 1936 in Taunton.

There is a beautiful picture of Mark Warren and his family in Jonathon Spiller's anc* tree.

Mark's parents were William Warren and Mary Hurford, your 2x great grandparents, and they were the witnesses to the marriage of Robert Warren and Mary Moore in 1822 at Hemyock, Devon, who were my 4x great grandparents.

Hello COUSIN !!  I wish it was as simple as William being present at Robert's wedding to prove kinship.  sigh, you could just to take my word for it, or read the following saga epic explanation here, even if it is a significant tangent to the original topic.

  Back to John b 1829...
Thankyou for the info on John's demise. I think the enumerator messed up with the Churchingford shoemaker John giving him a family from Bristol.

Charlotte Honor Quick, who your gg uncle John did marry in 1863, was born in Hemyock about 1830 to Ann Warren and John Quick, but baptised 1831 in Cutcombe, Somerset, where her parents Simon and Elizabeth had gone to after 1815, after quitting Upottery, Devon.

Ann Warren was baptised in Hemyock 1 Jan 1797, eldest child of Simon and Elizabeth How, who had married at Churchstanton Feb 1796. Ann has many siblings, and a younger sister is Jane, who is another 4x ggm of mine.

I cannot find baptisms for any of Ann's siblings, which was also another topic on RC.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=720274.msg5770408#msg5770408

When my Jane marries Thomas Baker at Cutcombe in 1827, her sister Ann's husband John Quick is a witness.

My 5th ggf Simon and your William senior were BROTHERS - sons of Robert and Amy Warren of Clayhidon, the next parish over. This is why CH's 2 of 3 older sisters, Elizabeth and Frances Jane Quick are visiting your William senior and Mary Warren, in Churchstanton, on census night 1841, being their great uncle.

Meanwhile, their younger sisters, the above mentioned Charlotte Honor Quick, aged 10 and baby sister Lavinia Harriet, 6, are at home with widowed mum Ann Quick, at Madford (can there be such a place) in Hemyock.

Charlotte and John have a dau Catherine Mary 1868. In 1871 Charlotte has taken Catherine aged 3, to Aston, Birmingham, to the husband of the now deceased Lavinia, namely Charles French. This also where Ann Quick was census night 1861, visiting dau LH and son in law Charles. I wonder what happen to the little one Catherine, as she isn't with CH in 1881?

And none of this solves poor Bristol Margaret !! It just keeps me up very late, haha.

Salute,

Janelle

[celiag41]

Hi Jonelle!

I think you are probably my 6th cousin once removed!!

Thank you for all the information -   especially for giving the names of Simon and William's
parents.  William was as far back as I had been able to get.  Do you have any birth or death
dates for Robert and Amy?
Sadly the Warren name is now dying out on my branch of the family as Mark's son Richard's
descendants are all girls.

Thanks again
CG