Author Topic: gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?  (Read 2874 times)

Offline pergamond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?
« on: Wednesday 01 March 17 03:54 GMT (UK) »
I wondered how often it happened that there was a gravestone but not a death record in the mid-1800s. I have two which are becoming a bit of a brick wall for me.

Was this quite a common occurrence?

Offline GR2

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,579
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 06:09 GMT (UK) »
Very common. While parishes did keep registers of marriages and baptisms (with varying detail), not all kept a burial register. In addition, many burial registers were filled in sporadically or have been lost. Sometimes what you have is a note of payment for use of the mortcloth.

Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,546
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 06:26 GMT (UK) »
Where there is more than one name, sometimes a name on a headstone is there "in memory of" a person who died / buried elsewhere, rather than the name of a person buried at that site. Any wording on the stone might suggest this possibility, also sequence in which  names are engraved.

If you can identify the headstones you are seeing, and all inscription details, we might be able to consider the possibilities.

Offline pergamond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 07:42 GMT (UK) »
Thank you both.
Gravestones on Ross & Cromarty Roots.

Helen Riddell wife of John Clark saddler, Bonar Bridge, who died 10 Nov 1854 aged 31 years.

Walter Riddle son of John Riddle, Wester Fearn, who departed this life Inverness 1st May 1845 aged 19 years.

Best of luck.  :)


Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,546
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 08:45 GMT (UK) »

To account for my suggestion -

The headstone for Walter RIDDLE has inscription for only one person, all the space used for inscription. This looks to be a dedicated headstone for Walter.

Helen RIDDLE - without being able to see the headstone, the inscription, with deaths of Helen and birth date for her daughter, Mary, would also seem to be for people buried in this plot, not at another location.

Offline pergamond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 08:52 GMT (UK) »
Oh I see. So Walter may well be buried elsewhere. But Helen, with daughter Mary and husband John, is probably buried there.

Scotland's People doesn't have a record of Walter or Helen's deaths which surprised me, as the specific dates are on the headstones.

Maybe it's to do with a burial register not being kept or not having survived for that/those particular graveyard/s.

Offline wivenhoe

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,546
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 09:07 GMT (UK) »

If Walter's name was one of several on a headstone, it could be that the headstone identified person / persons buried in the plot, and inscriptions added to also  memorialise the deaths of other people, who might not be buried in that plot eg died overseas. Gives some families a sense of inclusion, completion.....


The headstone for Walter exists to record the death of only one person - Walter, so I would see that to mean that he is buried there.

Offline pergamond

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 09:15 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for clarifying Wivenhoe.

It's really so difficult to accept that there may not be records. I keep thinking if I try from yet another perspective I may discover them. Maybe time to move on.

Offline RJ_Paton

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,485
  • Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
    • View Profile
Re: gravestones 1845 and 1854 but no death records?
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 01 March 17 11:44 GMT (UK) »
I wondered how often it happened that there was a gravestone but not a death record in the mid-1800s. I have two which are becoming a bit of a brick wall for me.

Was this quite a common occurrence?

Prior to the commencement of Civil Registration in Scotland in 1855 the lack of good records was often put forward as an argument in favour of change by the supporters of such schemes.

In theory the local minister was supposed to keep a record but while some kept excellent records others either ignored the instructions or passed the responsibility off to someone else or even where they kept records they only recorded those who hired the Parish Mortcloth (a cover for the coffin).
In addition in many areas scant regard was given to the preservation of these records - some fell into private hands and were lost, others destroyed by fire, flood or vermin.

A review of the Parochial Records by William Turnbull and published in 1849 was quite scathing about many of the Parishes in Ross & Cromarty and their lack of records (although as a supporter of Registration he was pretty scathing of the majority of Parishes throughout Scotland referring to one minister in Lanarkshire as being fonder of discipline than he was of book keeping)