My Brick Wall concerning Dorothy Harding

[Bellini]

My brick wall: suggestions welcome.
Name: Dorothy Harding born 13 June 1921 (source 1939 register) living @ 35 Henrietta Street Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire with her mother, Bertha Wragg nee Harding. I first discovered that my maternal grandmother (Charlotte) Bertha Wragg had another daughter when I sent for Bertha's death cert. Dorothy Harding 'daughter of the deceased' was the informant. (28 May 1947). I was told that my grandmother left her husband and two small children when my mother was abt 2 years old (i.e. about 1919-1920) but we had no idea that there was another child. Until the 1939 register came out I had not managed to find a likely birth for Dorothy Harding/Wragg. Now I had an actual date of birth 13 June 1921 BUT i still have not been able to trace a birth.
Alongside Dorothy's name in 1939 register is an entry CZYZ. I then searched for a marriage for Dorothy and found Jan CZYZ married Dorothy Harding on 30 March 1979 Barton Greater Manchester. I sent for the marriage cert thinking I would find out who Dorothy's father was but that is left blank on the marriage cert. The couple were living at 247 Peel Green Rd, Eccles in 1979. There is a likely death of Jan CZYZ in Feb 1984 in Salford, Lancs giving a date of birth 1 Sept 1913. No death for Dorothy Czyz though. Truly a mystery woman!!!

[alpinecottage]

She may still be alive; she'd only be about 96.

[CaroleW]

She died December 1979 - transcribed as EZYZ - I just used her birthdate and christian name to search      Salford 39   0807

Short lived marriage

[nanny jan]

Not all birth dates on the 1939 Register are correct.....my grandpa gave the wrong date, month and year....he was very surprised to get his Old Age Pension as he was actually a year older than he thought he was!   

[philipsearching]

FreeBMD has:
two possible births for Bertha in Ashton between 1880-95, none for Charlotte.
marriage Jun 1913 Ashton vol 8d p689 - Harry WRAGG - on same page Charlotte B HARDING
2 births for WRAGG children mmn HARDING in Ashton 1913 and 1917
Harry WRAGG death aged 59 Ashton Jun 1946 vol 8d p650

If these entries are related, EITHER Harry Wragg died or went missing in WW1 and the 1946 death is a different Harry, OR Harry and Charlotte (Bertha?) had separated sometime after 1917 - which fits the family tale.

FreeBMD doesn't show a birth for Dorothy HARDING in 1921, but there are three possibles in Lancashire:
Dorothy M HALL Jun 1921 Prestwich vol 8d p664 - mmn HARDING
Dorothy D DIXON Sep 1921 Toxteth P vol 8b p346 - mmn HARDING
Dorothy HILTON Sep 1921 Warrington vol 8c p351 - mmn HARDING

I haven't checked for parents's marriages for the three births above - that might confirm or eliminate.

Hope this helps
Philip

[CaroleW]

FreeBMD doesn't show a birth for Dorothy HARDING in 1921

September qtr 1921

Dorothy Harding mmn    Silver  Manchester    8d   457

The only Harding/Silver marriage I can find at the moment was in Camberwell 1899

[CaroleW]

 If the mothers birth surname was Silver but she was a widow when she married Harding - any marriage would be under her previous married name but childrens births would show her true maiden name

[Bellini]

Once again, Rootschatters have come up trumps. Thank you so much for your help. I know I still haven't found Dorothy's birth but to have come up with her death in 1979 is fantastic. Will now order the cert to add to my total sum of knowledge.  Philipsearching  you have the correct details for Charlotte Bertha Harding (her birth cert gives her name as Bertha) 2 Mach 1894 Ashton U Lyne. She seems to have adopted the name Charlotte (after her mother who died 10 days after giving birth to her) at a later stage. She married my grandfather Harry Wragg in 1913 and had two children George born 1913 and my mother Elizabeth born 1917. Dorothy came along in 1921 after she had left her husband & young children.
Thanks again. I have another piece of the jigsaw.

[CaroleW]

I know I still haven't found Dorothy's birth

Have you see reply 6 above?