Edward Saunders where are you?

[Maiden Stone]

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk

Marriage: 29 Dec 1873 St George, Bolton, Lancashire,

John Sanders - (X), Full, Hawker, Bachelor, Bolton
Elizabeth Grady - (X), Full, Spinster, Bolton

Groom's Father: James Sanders, Hawker
Bride's Father: John Grady, Labourer
Witness: James Gorman; Sarah Gorman,

Sarah Gorman was also godmother to son James.

[sgf28]

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk

Baptism:
28 Nov 1875 St Mary of the Assumption, Burnley, Lancashire

Jacobus Gorman - filius Jacobi Gorman & Sarah (formerly Saunders)
Born: 10 Nov 1875
Abode: 8 Blackburn St. off Salford

Godparents: Joannes Saunders; Elizabetha Saunders

Looks like Sarah Gorman was John Saunders sister.

[heywood]

1861 2981/24/3

22 Scotland Street Ashton u Lyne

Bridget Sanders   44 yrs b Blackburn
Sally Sanders 10 yrs b Wakefield
Elizabeth Sanders 8 yrs b Preston
John Sanders 6 yrs b Huddersfield

[Maiden Stone]

Owen Hart was buried in Rawtenstall cemetery 1887, plasterer (48), R.C., Lower Booths parish. Also buried in the cemetery were more Harts, all R.C., 2 from workhouse, abode Lower Booths.
Another burial  there in Catholic part (1877) was Bridget Saunders, (59), widow, abode Colne, removed from Rawtenstall parish.  In the same month a hawker named John Cullen (R.C.) was buried from the workhouse. (Lancs OPC)

1871 census. An Elizabeth Grady (14 b. Haslingden)) was in a lodging house in Blackburn 17-21 Byrow St. Blackburn. With her were John (48, b. Manchester), Bridget (36, b. Ireland), Catherine (3, b. Accrington) & John (1m., b.Accrington). They were among a household of 44 people, including a hawker. John Grady was an outdoor lab.

[feeline190]

Thanks for all for the replies,
 I've been to see my Aunty to see if she could tell me anything else but she was really surprised at what you lovely people have given me. I think I'm going to order his death certificate and I'm also going to do some digging into workhouses around the area and hopefully I'll be able to rule somethings out. I'm also going to go to preston records office to look through records for st ann's parish which was where his mum and my great granddad where married.
Fingers crossed I get some answers!
Feeline190

[Maiden Stone]

I see that James Gorman was baptised at St. Mary of the Assumption in Burnley. I had cause to look at the baptism register on Lancs OPC in mid-Feb.  in connection with an enquiry from "mlmcholm". The title was  "Agnes Green baptism 1890". (Sorry, I can't do a link.)  The child seemed to have had 2 baptisms, several months apart. The 1st (actual baptism) was in the workhouse. The 2nd "baptism" was an additional ceremony at church, with godparent(s).  Browsing through the register for a few months in 1890-1 picked up similar double entries for other babies who had apparently started life in the workhouse.
 Records for Burnley Workhouse went on Lancs OPC last month; there are only a few years so far.

Given the background of the Saunders & Fees they might have come to the attention of Catholic Charities.
Most parishes had a St. Vincent de Paul group which gave alms to the poor in their own parish: e.g. food, clogs for children to wear to school (clogs had "not to be pawned " burnt into sole to prevent parents using them to get money for drink.) Each SVP group kept an account book.

Thinking about where the children may have spent time. There were Catholic orphanages in Manchester, Preston and probably other towns. A girl cousin of my GGM was in the one in Preston at the age of 6; her little brother was a boarder in a family household. Their parents died in the same year. 2 other little girls of the same age in the orphanage may have been more distant cousins of GGM. Tracing those children wasn't straightforward; inaccurate information was on census. GGM's own mother died when she was 10. She, her younger sister + the 2 orphaned cousins were living with a married aunt when they were in their teens.
March edition of BBC History magazine has an article: Escaping the Workhouse; the Victorian war on child poverty. It has descriptions and illustrations of "separate schools" and cottage homes.

I'm curious about why the family became "Hart" for a time.
Have you looked at Vagrancy records?

[feeline190]

Hi Maiden Stone,
Where would I find the vagrancy records please?
I think they changed their name so much because they may have been in trouble with the authorities. I've no proof of course. I do know that Owen's mother was a Hart before marriage so it might just be that it was a convenient name to use.
Feeline190

[Maiden Stone]

Lancashire archives has vagrancy documents. A lot of them date from earlier in 19th century. Put "vagrants" in the search box in the online catalogue.
Lancs. Archives also has documents of the Reformatory & Industrial Schools committee. Ref. QAB.