Author Topic: Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather  (Read 2608 times)

Offline Welsh Seeker6

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Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather
« on: Thursday 09 March 17 19:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi all. I'm new here on RootsChat.

I have been looking for William H. Welsh who is my father's father. He was a ship's purser and also see him as a 2nd and 3rd steward on ships from Liverpool to NY, also going to Sierra Leone and the Caribbean. He worked for White Star Lines, Elder Dempster and the United Fruit Company. Trying to find out what family he was born into. I ordered shipping manifests from Newfoundland where he lists Manchester as his place of birth, but I know that he lived in Liverpool. There are so many William Welsh's that it is very confusing.
We are not sure if this information is true, but was told that William's father owned a shipping company and that he didn't want an office job but wanted to be out on the sea, and that is where we find him.   He was born, according to the ages from the shipping registers, anywhere from 1880-1884, as he lists various ages during the years. Recently found a ship's register showing his address as 5 Hatherley Street, Liverpool in 1918. I then located who lived at that address in 1911 and there were two unrelated people that I didn't know and an Edward Welsh on 30 Hatherley Street, Liverpool (Seacombe?) in the 1911 Directory, but don't know if they are any relation; interestingly my dad was named Edward. I assume that he could have been renting a room for when he was back from sea, or it could be family.
One thing that I also just found out is that about 1921 on these ship registers he starts listing himself as Race: British, Nationality: Australian, instead of British, British. I'm not sure if he ever lived in Australia? or his family migrated there? That year Australia became independent I understand. My dad had never heard anything about Australia, although he never knew his dad and was told he died at sea, but his mom was prone to untruths. He seems to disappear off of the ship registers before 1930. I wonder if he went to Australia? I attempted to find him there, no luck. Any ideas?
Welsh, Van Sicklen, Ahlen, Bostwick, Tousley/Towsley, Geisler, Schwab

Offline chempat

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Re: Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 09 March 17 19:52 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat.

Did William Welsh marry your Father's Mother?  If so, when and where, please?

Offline avm228

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Re: Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 09 March 17 19:53 GMT (UK) »
Welcome :)

Do you know what middle initial H stood for?

Also, details of your father's birth would be helpful (where, when, full name) assuming he is no longer with us.  Rootschat rules require that we don't post identifying info about living people.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Welsh Seeker6

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Re: Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 09 March 17 20:02 GMT (UK) »
No, I don't think they were ever married as there is no record of it in Manhattan where she lived. When she purchased a house in Staten Island, it was registered with her first name and his last name, Mabel Welsh, as he couldn't purchase a home in this country. My dad also carried the last name Welsh in this census record, which listed William and their daughter, Doris. But she later reverted back to her "maiden" name and my dad, other than this listing, has his mother's maiden name.

The "H" I have always heard stood for Henry, although I have never seen a document that proves this.
Welsh, Van Sicklen, Ahlen, Bostwick, Tousley/Towsley, Geisler, Schwab


Offline Welsh Seeker6

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Re: Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 09 March 17 20:11 GMT (UK) »
My dad is not sure where he was born. His mother told him Vinton, Iowa...we've been there and there is no record of his birth. I did recently find a newspaper article showing his mom visiting her brother in Vinton, Iowa about 2 weeks after my dad's birth date of July 28, 1916. His aunt said that he was born in NYC, which would be correct assuming that the birth date is right. There is no birth certificate in NYC either. The baptismal shows his name as Edward Joseph Van Sicklen, her as Mabel VS and father as Edward Joseph VS, Sr. Our thought is that he was illegitimate and she was trying to cover that up. Doris he was told died about age 4 or 5 after running into the street.
Welsh, Van Sicklen, Ahlen, Bostwick, Tousley/Towsley, Geisler, Schwab

Offline avm228

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Re: Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 09 March 17 20:11 GMT (UK) »
OK, so this is the family in 1920 for others looking:

Jasmine St, Flushing, Queens, NY

William H Welsh Head Mar 37 Immigrated 1916 Alien English born of English parents, purser (ship)
Mabel do Wife Mar 32 born NY of US father and Swedish mother
Edward do Son 3.5 born NY
Doris do Daur 1mo born NY [age corrected]

1930: Saw Mill River Rd, Ossining, Westchester, NY

Mabel Van Sicklen Head 43 S born NY, father Iowa & mother Sweden
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline avm228

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Re: Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 09 March 17 20:49 GMT (UK) »
My dad is not sure where he was born. His mother told him Vinton, Iowa...we've been there and there is no record of his birth. I did recently find a newspaper article showing his mom visiting her brother in Vinton, Iowa about 2 weeks after my dad's birth date of July 28, 1916. His aunt said that he was born in NYC, which would be correct assuming that the birth date is right. There is no birth certificate in NYC either. The baptismal shows his name as Edward Joseph Van Sicklen, her as Mabel VS and father as Edward Joseph VS, Sr.

Where and when was this baptism? I have found a different one.

Episcopal Diocese of New York

Baptised May 8, 1920 at Willard Parker Hospital

Edward Van Sicklen aged 4 years.  Parents: William & Mable Van Sicklen.  Sponsor: Miss Mohr.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline Welsh Seeker6

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Re: Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 09 March 17 21:13 GMT (UK) »
The only baptismal that I've ever seen is from Holy Rood Church (Episcopal) in Manhattan, NY on March 30, 1918 ("Easter Even").  Parents Edward N. Van Sicklen and Mabel Van Sicklen(nee Van Sicklen). Date and place of birth, Vinton, Iowa July 28, 1916.  He was actually baptized Edward Norton VS and later took Joseph as a middle name was joining the Roman Catholic church.
Where did you find this information? I'm very interested!

Doris Welsh was listed as 1/12 under age and would have been a month old, not 1.5. So we estimate her born about Dec. 20 (+/-), 1919.

Thank you for alerting me to this!
Welsh, Van Sicklen, Ahlen, Bostwick, Tousley/Towsley, Geisler, Schwab

Offline avm228

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Re: Help...William H. Welsh, b.Manchester, lived Liverpool - my grandfather
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 09 March 17 21:19 GMT (UK) »
Yes, sorry - you are right of course about Doris' age in 1920.

The 1920 baptism for Edward can be seen on Ancestry.  Willard Parker Hospital treated children for scarlet fever, diphtheria and measles.  It may be that Edward became seriously ill and a baptism was carried out in ignorance of the fact he had already been baptised.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)