Raynors in Charing

[MattD30]

Matt,

I looked at the (filmed copy) of the Charing Register this morning.  For what it is worth, my transcription of the previously mentioned baptism is,
1647/8 Feb 25 Mary d/o Alin BROOKE

On a quick look it seems likely that, the above Mary's mother was also Mary.  I shall leave it to you but the mother may have died as Mary Boughton in 1688 (at Charing) leaving a Will as,
Boughton Mary Charing 1688 1688 PRC/32/55/335a PRC/31/158 B/3  1688

A possible?

Tony

Thanks for the useful update. I'll look into this next time I'm looking at Kent Wills.

I must admit this still leaves me with a few questions. Do you think this rules Mary Brook/Brooke out as Anne Raynor's mother? Or is Anne's mother definitely Anne Simmons?

I've done some research on the Raynor, Simmon, and Brook families this morning and I think I might have found burials for some of them but I need to double check who is who. I suppose it is entirely possible that Thomas Raynor was married twice, with both wives being named Mary, something I have seen happen before (I have one ancestor in Kent who was married four times, each of his first three wives was named Anne!).

What we need is a clear way of eliminating either Mary Brook or Mary Simmons as the mother Anne Raynor. It's possible that the Will you mentioned could hold the key information, especially if it mentions the names of children or grandchildren.

Thanks again for the info

Matt

[knotin]

Matt and Tony

Just a thought - I have come to the conclusion that there is more than one Thomas Raynor.

One of these did marry a Mary Brook on 13 April 1669 at Rodmersham. This could be linked to the 3 children chris. at Charing - Thomas, Mary and Ann. A Thomas Raynor was chris. 8 Feb 1618 at Rodmersham, f. Robert and another Thomas ch. 22 Mar 1621 at Rodmersham f. Thomas.

There appears to be a Will listed for a Mary Raynor of Rodmersham in 1705. Also Wills for Robert Raynor in Charing 1668. There are also a number of other Raynor Wills (with various spelling of the surname) at both Charing and Rodmersham - perhaps they could hold clues.

I have come across a Thomas Raynor who married a Julian Ingram 24 Nov. 1631 at Faversham. They had a son Thomas chris. 2 Feb 1640 at Faversham. Julian was buried at Newington 20 Oct 1662 - perhaps this is the link to the children of Thomas  born at Newington and Lyminge.

Brenda

[redtonyt]

I agree with Brenda.  I believe there are two distinct Families, the one at Charing and the other from Newington/Lyminge.

However, there is a problem in Brenda's final paragraph, the marriage TR to JI took place at Folkestone not Favaersham.  This may be the result of a problem on Family Search where two separate parishes are on the same film!  See

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=752997.msg6017911#msg6017911

Tony

[knotin]

Hi Tony

I was aware  that there were records for the family at both Folkstone and Faversham. On looking at the family search site, they give a set of births and marriages for both parishes. As you say perhaps both parishes were on the same film. Looking at where they lived - Newington and Lyminge, I think the more likely of the 2 would be Faversham, however, only looking at the original parish records would give us right parish for them.
I do appreciate  your efforts very much. Are you related to this family like Matt and myself?

Brenda

[redtonyt]

Hi Brenda,

As far as I know I have no connection with any strand of Rayners.  My pedigree takes me to Ruckinge where there were Rayners but, I have not found any links.

I haven't seen the Folkestone Parish Register but, found the marriage on the East Kent Marriage Index.  This is accessible through Find my Past or in the Archives at Canterbury Cathedral.

If you view the thread, to which I posted the link, you will find I contributed.  I have experienced this duplication as Harbledown and Ham get muddled together.  One of my ancestral parishes, is Harbledown.

All the best and happy hunting,
Tony

[MattD30]

Matt and Tony

Just a thought - I have come to the conclusion that there is more than one Thomas Raynor.

One of these did marry a Mary Brook on 13 April 1669 at Rodmersham. This could be linked to the 3 children chris. at Charing - Thomas, Mary and Ann. A Thomas Raynor was chris. 8 Feb 1618 at Rodmersham, f. Robert and another Thomas ch. 22 Mar 1621 at Rodmersham f. Thomas.

There appears to be a Will listed for a Mary Raynor of Rodmersham in 1705. Also Wills for Robert Raynor in Charing 1668. There are also a number of other Raynor Wills (with various spelling of the surname) at both Charing and Rodmersham - perhaps they could hold clues.

I have come across a Thomas Raynor who married a Julian Ingram 24 Nov. 1631 at Faversham. They had a son Thomas chris. 2 Feb 1640 at Faversham. Julian was buried at Newington 20 Oct 1662 - perhaps this is the link to the children of Thomas  born at Newington and Lyminge.

Brenda

Hi Breda

I agree with you that there are two different Thomas Rayners who both married women named Mary. At least that is how things appear unless the first Mary died and Thomas remarried. So far though there's no evidence or suggestion of that.

I also have a record of Thomas Raynor and Julian Ingram who married in Faversham and agree there could be a link to those in Lyminge etc. I've also seen a possible connection to Folkestone but I'll need to double check my notes. I don't think the Rayners in the Faversham/Lyminge/Folkestone area are connected to those in Charing though as the parishes seem too far apart. What do you think?

I definitely agree that the answer probably lies in those Wills. I think I have a copy of at least one Rayner Will indoors so I'll check when I'm home. I'll also make a note to check the other Wills nxt time I'm at the National Archives.

Matt

[MattD30]

Hi All

Here's an update on the work I've been doing on the Rayner family. I've been going through all the posts regarding Anne Rayner and my own notes on the Raynor family and it seems that there is still some confusion over the name of Anne Rayner's parents.

According to posts by Susan in 2013, and 2015 in reply to my 1st enquiry about Anne Rayner, the parents were Robert and Mary Rayner. Anne was christened on 4 October 1674 at Charing. This info comes from the Charing Bishops' Transcripts. This can be seen at the following page:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=4823523;topic=634447.0;last_msg=5664930

According to the details I have from Susan, Robert and Mary had three other children:

Elizabeth christened 1 September 1673 Charing [BTs]
Richard christened 23 December 1677 Charing [BTs]
Frances christened 28 October 1683 Charing [BTs]

However another post given by Tony on this board states that according to the information he has the parents are Thomas and Mary. However I don't remember if Tony stated where this information was from (ie parish registers, BTs, modern transcripts etc). The details given by Tony can be seen at the following two pages:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6192876;topic=767158.0;last_msg=6195864#postmodify

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=6192876;topic=767158.0;last_msg=6195864#postmodify

According to Tony's posts Thomas and Mary had two other children:

Thomas christened 16 Jan 1670 Charing
Mary christened 10 Mar 1672 Charing

The interesting thing here is that BOTH examples give Anne's christening date as 4 October 1674 and BOTH say her mother was named Mary. The only difference is that one has her father named as Robert (according to the BTs) and the other has him named as Thomas.

According to records on FindmyPast Anne's parents were Thomas and Mary [source: Charing Batisms 1590-1911 - KFHS ref:1470]. This is possibly the same source as quoted by Tony.

Why would the BTs name her father as Robert and the PRs name him as Thomas? Is it possible that the entry on FindmyPast has been transcribed incorrectly? Should that 'Thomas' actually read Robert? I guess we need to consult the original PRs as well now to see what they say rather than the modern transcriptions of them.

Robert Rayner was apparently married to Mary Brown in Canterbury in 1672 [by Licence]

There are two possible marriages for Thomas.

Thomas Rayner who married Mary Brook in Rodmersham in 1669 [a year before the birth of their first child]

Thomas Rayner who married Mary Simmons in Canterbury in 1664 [six years before the birth of the first child]

Is anyone able to check the parish registers for Anne Rayner's christening and confirm her parents names? At the moment based on the fact that the details come from the BTs I am more inclined to believe her parents are Robert and Mary, but what do the original PRs say? Is anyone able to post an image of the original entry?

Robert and Thomas might have been brothers, and that is my current belief based on the info I have. Also the dates of christening of the children of Robert and Mary, and those of Tomas and Mary take place in alternating years - making me wonder if it is the same family with the father's name mis-transcribed in one case [possibly the BTs] or did the two brothers both have a daughter named Anne christened on the same day?

I am currently going through a number of Wills relating to the Rayners to see if they help. These include:

Robert Rayner of Charing - Will proved 1668
Thomas Rayner of Folkestone - Will proved 1672.

I'm going to go through these and the notes that everyone has posted about Anne Rayner in reply to my 2013 post and this one and will try and construct a family tree. It would be useful if anyone was able to confirm the name of Anne's parents from the original sources or provide any other clues or suggestions that might help work out who her parents actually were. Ideally if anyone has read any Wills or other documents relating to the Rayner family or families linked to them then those might hold clues too.

Thanks for everyones help and I hope someone can provide the clues to finally identify Anne Rayner's parents and therefore her ancestry.

Matt