Author Topic: Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.  (Read 1332 times)

Offline Liviani

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Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.
« on: Wednesday 15 March 17 15:08 GMT (UK) »
Needing some information on my G grandfather.

My grandfather Charles McKenzie was born on 18th June 1903 at Inchock, Inverkeilor. Illegitimate. His parents noted on the certificate are Charles McKenzie (Ploughman) and Mary Jane Evans Stewart (Domestic servant). Charles Snr was noted as living at West Mains of Turin, Rescobie Parish on this birth cert. Mary I presume would be living at Inchock as her family lives there.

The birth certificate was signed by both the mother and father.

Charles Jr born 1903 was married in 1927 at Mains of Kelly, Arbirlot. His father is noted as deceased.

I have no further information on Charles Snr, it appears Charles Jr was brought up by his mother's family as he is in with the Stewarts at Inchock, Inverkeilor and noted as a grandson in the 1911 census. I do not believe Mary Stewart and Charles Snr ever married.

Struggling to find any information at all on Charles Snr.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

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Online CaroleW

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Re: Charles McKenzie Rescobie Parish - brick wall.
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 15 March 17 15:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi and welcome

This is the only Charles McKenzie living in Rescobie in 1901 - Wardmill Bothy


Robert McKenzie   17 b Fearie Forfar farm servant ploughman
Charles McKenzie 16  farm servant ploughman b Forfar
Alexander Ramsay 17 b Aberlemno farm servant ploughman
Rescobie ED 5 Page 6 Line 6
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline Liviani

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Re: Charles McKenzie Rescobie Parish - brick wall.
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 15 March 17 15:55 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for this. I believe that will be him.

I've tried to search for deaths of Charles McKenzie's in Angus between the birth of his son in 1903 and 1927 when he is listed as deceased on his son's marriage certificate. None of the ages match at all in this list of deaths.

On searching SP on births of Charles McKenzie's in either 1882 or 1883 there is only one born in Forfar and this is a Charles George McKenzie. This birth is also listed in the catholic registers.

I've not come across the middle name on any documents before, was it usual to leave it out back then?

I also have a feeling that he was in fact not deceased at the time of his son's marriage in 1927. Either that or he emigrated and there is no record of his death in Scotland.

I'm wondering if his son was told incorrect information or if he did lie to the registrar about his father's 'death'. This is getting quite intriguing now.

As far as I was aware all of my family are Church of Scotland and have found no ancestors whom were Catholic other than this Charles George McKenzie. Perhaps this is the reason Charles Snr and Mary Stewart never married?

I will see what else I can find out. I'm going to go with Charles George being my G Grandfather. Nothing else fits.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Online CaroleW

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Re: Charles McKenzie Rescobie Parish - brick wall.
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 15 March 17 16:02 GMT (UK) »
I agree with your findings as I can only find Charles G  McKenzie in 1891 - son of Kenneth & Betsy  EDIT - SEE REPLY BELOW

I was just checking WW1 deaths on the CWGC site but again - nothing fits with the entries with ages shown

Like you - I wondered if Charles jnr was just told his father was dead hence the marriage cert entry

I did wonder whether the Robert in 1901 was his brother but although the 1891 shows a brother Robert - there is a much bigger age gap
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Online CaroleW

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Re: Charles McKenzie Rescobie Parish - brick wall.
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 15 March 17 16:07 GMT (UK) »
He is not the 1891 entry - that Charles is still with mum Betsy in 1901  ???
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Re: Charles McKenzie Rescobie Parish - brick wall.
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 15 March 17 16:21 GMT (UK) »
I have found the 1891 entry for the Robert McKenzie shown with Charles in 1901.  He did have a brother Charles - agric labourer - but he was born 1871 so would have been 32 when Charles jnr was born

BUT

The entry also shows a Charles Small who I suspect may have been born before the marriage given the age gap between Daniel and Ellen

Daniel MacKenzie  56 b Munlochy, Ross
Ellen   32 b Benholm, Kincardine
Charles  20 b Forfar
Charles Small    8 b Forfar shown as son  SP shows birth reg 1882
Robert MacKenzie 7 b Fearn
Christina     5 b Tannadice
James  3 b Tannadice
Tannadice ED 6 Page 1 Line 15
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Liviani

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Re: Charles McKenzie Rescobie Parish - brick wall.
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 15 March 17 16:30 GMT (UK) »
Ahh, this makes sense, just when you think you're getting somewhere something else pops up.

I need to search Charles Small. No wonder I had difficulties before with this.

Thank you, I have much to go on. I wonder where the name 'Small' comes from. Perhaps Ellen's maiden name?

Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Liviani

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Re: Charles McKenzie Rescobie Parish - brick wall.
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 15 March 17 16:35 GMT (UK) »
Just looked at Charles Small's birth certificate.

He was illegitimate born May 18th 1882 to a Helen Ewan - Domestic Servant and Charles Small a Ploughman.

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Perhaps he was adopted? 
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Liviani

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Re: Charles McKenzie Rescobie Parish - brick wall.
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 15 March 17 16:37 GMT (UK) »
Just realised Helen could be the same name as Ellen? Could still be his mother and she met and married Daniel later?
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie