Author Topic: Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.  (Read 1361 times)

Offline Liviani

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Re: Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.
« Reply #72 on: Tuesday 21 March 17 20:28 GMT (UK) »
There is also the following info in the 1851 census. This is interesting as you will notice the surname Johnstone mentioned again. In the 1871 census 11 year old Charles Small was living with Ann Small aged 41 and a Janet Johnstone (I think it's Janet) aged 49. With the information that Leonard and Ann married in 1853, the reason why she is named Small in 1851 is a bit confusing. Not sure where to go from here. This family seems so messy!
I think this family is a red herring, at least it is at present. There could, I suppose, be a link further back on the Small side.

It's quite normal for a married woman to be listed in the earlier census under her maiden surname. This is the family of George Small and Isabella Johnston.

I also happen to know that their daughter Ann, aged 23 in the 1851 census, could not be the Ann Mackay who married Leonard Small, because Ann Small, daughter of George Small and Isabella Johnston, married my 3rd cousin 4 times removed, Joseph Moug, a few weeks before Leonard Small married Ann Mackay. Joseph and Ann had 10 children, and died in 1882 and 1900 respectively, all in Glamis.

I suggest that you dismiss the idea that there is any close relationship between your Smalls and either of these Johnston(e) ladies, as I think that pursuing that line of enquiry is only likely to muddy the waters of your research.

What a small world!

But yes, I think you're right regarding the Johnston(e) ladies. I didn't notice the "ditto" on the census and had wrongly assumed she was in the same household. Thank you for that information. Good to know that that Ann is definitely the wrong one.

Jill
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

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Offline AdrianB38

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Re: Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.
« Reply #73 on: Tuesday 21 March 17 22:33 GMT (UK) »
Yes, but the question then arises, why was Charles originally registered as Henderson?
My best guess is that it was simply a mix up. The Registrar asked "Name of child?" (meaning the full name) and the father responded with just the given names of "Charles Henderson", assuming that the Registrar would add the surname.

However, the Registrar didn't add it, so he ended up as "Henderson, Charles". If you look, the RoCE actually corrects several aspects - not just the surname of the child but the year is missing from the date, and the informant's qualification for being the informant ("father") is also missing. One way or another, it's a pretty flakey job for some reason, so error is perhaps the most likely causeof the odd name.

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Offline Liviani

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Re: Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.
« Reply #74 on: Tuesday 21 March 17 22:46 GMT (UK) »
Yes, but the question then arises, why was Charles originally registered as Henderson?
My best guess is that it was simply a mix up. The Registrar asked "Name of child?" (meaning the full name) and the father responded with just the given names of "Charles Henderson", assuming that the Registrar would add the surname.

However, the Registrar didn't add it, so he ended up as "Henderson, Charles". If you look, the RoCE actually corrects several aspects - not just the surname of the child but the year is missing from the date, and the informant's qualification for being the informant ("father") is also missing. One way or another, it's a pretty flakey job for some reason, so error is perhaps the most likely causeof the odd name.

This makes sense. Also with the fact that civil registration was relatively new at this point in history. It could just be a mess up with the registrar, new job perhaps.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Liviani

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Re: Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.
« Reply #75 on: Monday 27 March 17 03:09 BST (UK) »
Potentially found Leonard Small on the 1841 census.

Piece: SCT1841/270 Place: Airlie -Angus Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Airlie Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: -
Folio: 4 Page: 6
Address: Blackhill

       SMALL       Leinard       M       60       Farmer        Angus           
        SMALL       Leinard       M       15               Angus           
        SMALL       Isabella       F       47               Angus   the mother?           
        SMITH       John       M       4               Angus           
 Page: 4/7       SMALL       John       M       5               Angus           
        DUNCAN       James       M       11               Angus           
        HARDY       Isabella       F       63               Angus

I have a feeling that "Leinard" aged 60 is actually the 15 year old's grandfather, or uncle ??? given the age of Isabella Hardy at 63. Isabella Hardy and Leonard Small did marry in Airlie Parish on 14th March 1824 so we know this is his wife with her maiden name stated. Seems like Isabella Small (the daughter or sister?) has been rather naughty given the amount of children in this house. Isabella Hardy/Small is just too old for this! Not sure who the John Smith would be, I wouldn't imagine she'd name 2 children John though ???

The Leonard Small that married Ann McKay (sometimes noted in documents as Mackie) in 1853 in Glenisla would be in his 20s so this matches up with what I'd expect. What puts me off looking up SP for Church marriage/banns Records is their lack of information. They often don't state parents names as far as I believe. Or even ages of those involved?

There was another Leonard Small who married a Jannet McKenzie in 1808 in Glenisla. Not sure if there is a connection and what that connection could be yet. Seems likely as I don't imagine the name Leonard Small would be altogether common in Glenisla then. ???


Edit:

This is Leonard Jr's death cert.

So his parents are stated as Leonard Small and Isabella Hardie/Hardy ??? Given their ages in the 1841 this seems unlikely ??? Hmmm the plot thickens...



And this is the marriage or banns for Isabella Hardy and Leonard Small.

Not sure what it's trying to say regarding proclamations? Saying it's his second or third time? Not entirely sure what that means.





Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline bleckie

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Re: Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.
« Reply #76 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 07:18 BST (UK) »
Hi
My take is the date is for the first proclamation 14th March.2nd 21st March. and 3rd 28th March (if my maths are correct to early in the morning) proclamations were on the following Sunday's.

Banns were read from the pulpit on 3 consecutive Sundays.

Yours Aye
BruceL

Offline Liviani

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Re: Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.
« Reply #77 on: Tuesday 28 March 17 12:08 BST (UK) »
Hi
My take is the date is for the first proclamation 14th March.2nd 21st March. and 3rd 28th March (if my maths are correct to early in the morning) proclamations were on the following Sunday's.

Banns were read from the pulpit on 3 consecutive Sundays.

Yours Aye
BruceL

Many thanks for that info Bruce

Jill
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie

Offline Liviani

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Re: Charles Small born c1857. Angus - Rescobie or Coupar Angus.
« Reply #78 on: Saturday 01 April 17 17:27 BST (UK) »
I notice that Charles Henderson Small b 20th June 1859 (the one intiallly registered as just Charles Henderson mistakenly and later corrected in the RCE) to Leonard Small, Ploughman and Ann Mackay (Mackie) was born at Mudhall in Rescobie.

Mudhall according to Scotland's Places was a couple of small cottages.

I found the following on FreeCen for West Mudhall, Rescobie, 1851;

      HENDERSON       Andrew       Head       M       M       41       Mason        Angus - Rescobie           
        HENDERSON       Margaret       Wife       M       F       48               Angus - Monifieth           
        HENDERSON       Charles       Son       U       M       17       Mason        Angus - Rescobie           
        HENDERSON       Helen       Dau       -       F       10       Scholar        Angus - Rescobie

The name Henderson appearing again at the same location a few years earlier. Coincidence? Possibly, but I can't seem to link these people. The wife here appears to have been a Margaret Webster.
Kincardineshire
Sheret, Hosie, Valentine, Crow, Beattie, McArthur, Wyllie, Moffat
Angus (Forfarshire)
Adam, Valentine, Ewan, Beattie, Guild, Kydd, Bradford, Stronner, Gibson, Cloudsley, Evans, Stewart, Stott, Tindal
Perthshire
Small, Robertson, Murray
Ross & Cromarty
Cameron, Stewart, Grant
Banffshire - Gamrie
Anderson, Massie