Margaret Evans (Cilcarw) and John Rees Waunfawr conundrum

[roycymru]

Hello

I am hoping someone who might have links to the above families can help. This is a branch of my family history which has a conundrum I am trying to resolve. From a couple of different sources I have that Margaret Evans (Cilcarw, daughter of Stephen Evans and Ann Thomas of Cilcarw farm), married a John Rees, they lived at Waunfawr and sources say they had 2 daughters Margaret and Ann(e). The sources say that the daughter Margaret Rees married Joseph Griffiths.

However, I can find no reference of Margaret Evans and John Rees of Waunfawr having a daughter Margaret. There is only one daughter Anne (born 1859) living with them in the 1861 and 1871 census.

That Joseph Griffiths married a Margaret is not in dispute. I have some details from a gravestone entry at Caresalem, Pontyberm which say Margaret Griffiths wife of Joseph Griffiths died 12/01/1877 age 23 (therefore born 1854). They had 2 daughters: Mary Anne (1875-1897) and Elizabeth (b. 1876). Elizabeth was brought up by her grandparents William and Elizabeth Griffiths. In the 1891 census there is also a Mary A Griffiths born 1875 living with John and Margaret Rees, which presumably is the other daughter. (Mary Ann is also listed on Margaret Griffiths's gravestone as dying on 21/03/1897 age 22).

Therefore I have what seems the right grandparents looking after the right grand children.

In theory Joseph and Margaret would have married around 1874, but searching free BMD from this period brings up no matches for a Joseph Griffiths marrying a Margaret Rees.

The only conclusion I can come to at present is that Joseph Griffiths married a different Margaret and therefore not Margaret Evans of Cilcarw. If so, which one?

Is anyone able to shine some light on this matter, as the sources seem reliable?

[MarMnkly]

Hi Roy
I can see a marriage entry for 18 April 1874 at the parish church Llangendeirne for:
Joseph Griffiths, full age, bachelor, blacksmith, residence at time of marriage is Pontyberem; father is William Griffiths, sawyer.
Margaret Evans, full age, spinster, residence at time of marriage is Pontyberem; father is John Rees, farmer. Witnesses are Edwin Griffiths and Daniel Davies.
Mar

[osprey]

interesting marriage!

That would be the Marg(a)ret Evans enumerated as granddaughter in the household of Stephen Evans in Cilcarw Ucha in 1871, place of birth shown as Glamorganshire RG10/5492 folio 35 pg 13 and in 1861 RG9/4135 folio 85 pg 14 place of birth Merthyr Tydfil.
1851 census shows a daughter Margaret aged 22 HO107/2472 folio 237 pg 17.

John Rees, Llethergarw, Llanddarog, father Walter Rees married Margaret Evans, Cilcarw, father Stephen Evans 27 Feb 1857 at Llangendeirne parish church.

1851 John was with father Walter & his wife Rachel, more likely to be John's stepmother, at Clinhire in Llangendeirne. HO107/2472 folio 233 pg 6. Think this is a mistranscription of Glynhir.

[osprey]

possible birth registrations

Margaret Evans sept qtr 1853 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 214 no maiden name given

Mary Ann Griffiths sept qtr 1874 Carmarthen vol 11a pg 836 mother's maiden name Evans
Elizabeth Griffiths dec qtr 1876 Carmarthen vol 11a pg 827 mother's maiden name Evans

I had a look at the Welsh newspapers online for Cilcarw

http://newspapers.library.wales/

and there's a long obituary for Ann, the older sister of Margaret Evans, who married David H. Rees in 1845 and emigrated to the USA in 1852. She died in Dodgeville in 1916. There was a surviving sister, Martha Gealy, in Cilcarw.

[roycymru]

Many thanks to both of you, much appreciated, makes more sense sense now.

Wonder if you or anyone else come across “Genealogy of the Rees family S.E. Simon, 1990”. I found reference to this on a random google search here: https://books.google.co.uk/books?redir_esc=y&id=IHtMAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=

Unfortunately the whole of the book does not seem to be available on google, but if you put in key words to search such as “Cilcarw” it brings up relevant results. It looks like it has interesting and valuable information on the Rees family from Pontyberem and surrounding areas and associated families such as Evans and Griffiths from the 19th and early 20th century. Plus details of those families that emigrated to America.

Apparently there is an electronic copy at the University of Wisconsin. I have emailed tem to see if there is some way this can be accessed from the UK and am awaiting a reply (up to 4 weeks).

In the interim if anyone has a hard or electronic copy I would be very interested

Regards

[roycymru]

possible birth registrations

Margaret Evans sept qtr 1853 Merthyr Tydfil vol 11a pg 214 no maiden name given

Mary Ann Griffiths sept qtr 1874 Carmarthen vol 11a pg 836 mother's maiden name Evans
Elizabeth Griffiths dec qtr 1876 Carmarthen vol 11a pg 827 mother's maiden name Evans

I had a look at the Welsh newspapers online for Cilcarw

http://newspapers.library.wales/

and there's a long obituary for Ann, the older sister of Margaret Evans, who married David H. Rees in 1845 and emigrated to the USA in 1852. She died in Dodgeville in 1916. There was a surviving sister, Martha Gealy, in Cilcarw.

Margaret Evans born Merthyr Tydfil father John Rees is a real conundrum as there is no real evidence of John ever moving out of Carmarthenshire. She could well be the illegitimate daughter of John Rees and Margaret Evans, with Margaret Evans moving out of the area to live with relatives during the pregancy/birth. But this is pure speculation. Obtaining the right cerificate might provide further clarification/clues.

[stesim58]

Hello--
    Were you able to resolve your Evans/Rees mystery? My name is connected to the
Rees publication because I donated a copy--Stephen Rees wrote the manuscript in 1922.
I am a descendant of Stephen Evans through Ann Evans (m. David H. Rees), oldest daughter.
Stephen Eric Simon, CT, USA

[roycymru]

Hello--
    Were you able to resolve your Evans/Rees mystery? My name is connected to the
Rees publication because I donated a copy--Stephen Rees wrote the manuscript in 1922.
I am a descendant of Stephen Evans through Ann Evans (m. David H. Rees), oldest daughter.
Stephen Eric Simon, CT, USA

Hello stesim58

Unfortunately not. I emailed the registrars for Merthy Tydfil asking them to look for any possible matches for a Margaret Evans born to a Margaret Evans in this period, either as an illegitimate child or with father listed as John Rees, but they were unable to find any matches. So either her birth wasn't registered or it was registered elsewhere, or could be in some non-conformist records somewhere. I believe birth registration was not compulsory until 1874.

Do you still have a copy of the Stephen Rees manuscript? The university of Winsconsin kindly sent me some information but I would love to have more. Is scanning some pages and PDFing them to me a possibility? If so, please p.m. me and I will give you my email address.

Kind regards

[stesim58]

Hi--
   Yes, I have a copy.
I am in touch with someone who is a descendant of the
other daughter of John Rees and Margaret Evans. He lives
in Pennsylvania. I did not know you could e-mail the
registrars and ask them to check for possible matches.
I have been sending for certificates through GRO--
ended up with a few misses--had to pay, of course.
Stephen, CT, USA